Mastering Entrepreneurship: Overcoming Adversity, Authentic Marketing, and Self-Care with Isa Gautschi

00:00 - Andrea Moore (Host)
Welcome. Welcome, issa. It is so wonderful to have you here. 

00:04 - Isa Gautschi (Host)
I'm so excited to be here. Thanks for having me. 

00:07 - Andrea Moore (Host)
Yeah, so why don't you first start out by telling people just a little bit about who you are and how you got to where you are today? 

00:14 - Isa Gautschi (Host)
Sure, my name is Isa . I am the marketing confidence cheerleader. I own a small digital marketing agency that helps other small business baddies mainly in wellness, mental health and creative arts and social justice spaces. And I encountered Dr Andrea's work because I ama long term sufferer of really bad migraines and I was lucky enough to participate in her pain to power group, which was literally life changing. We'll see. We'll give you some fun facts. I'm a roller skater. I have a very large puppy I didn't know he gets so large, he's about the size of a house now and I have a small furious cat and I like to dance. 

00:58 - Andrea Moore (Host)
I love those fun facts so much. It's like so fun to see roller skating on Instagram, yeah. 

01:04 - Isa Gautschi (Host)
Oh my gosh. 

01:05 - Andrea Moore (Host)
Yeah, it's been so kind of fun getting to have such an interesting part on your journey, right, like getting to see your journey behind the scenes, like within the program. But then I also worked with Issa where she helped me through some big things and you know, as an entrepreneur, there are so many behind the scenes challenges and so I sought out Issa for help with that and I mean her work was life changing for me and so I wanted to bring her on to speak to a little bit about what she does for people who are in these spaces, because I think is so often right, like we talked about this. I was just on Issa's podcast and so definitely go check that out as well. I'll link to it in the show notes. 

01:51
But I think we have a really similar overlap of clients, people who have something really big to contribute, like they have something to say, something to give back to the world, and I think it can be such a challenge, whether it is fears or chronic pain or just something else that feels like it's you're just like held back. So why don't you speak to? Because I feel like I'm speaking for your clients and I don't actually know that I just am speaking for myself as your client, but why don't you speak to like? What challenges do clients tend to face? 

02:24 - Isa Gautschi (Host)
Yeah, well, I think one of my main superpowers is messaging, so I love being the weaver of really compelling stories that get the people that are aligned to want to know more about you and your business, and I think this brings up so many challenges for my online clients, who are also often Dr Andrea's online clients, who are just on my podcast. Here is a stable marketing pod being like why are so many of our entrepreneur clients struggling with chronic pain? And one of the overlaps that is very prominent to me is that I primarily work with women, thems, clear people, bipoc people, people who might be struggling with chronic illness or neurodiversity, and I think that a lot of us learned to navigate in a world that, like literally A, was not built for us and, in some cases, was specifically structured to keep us out. And I'll turn out to get too historical or political on this, but, like I come from a corporate background and so there there were things I could not express about my identity and my experience and how I even experienced the workplace or interpersonal relationships as a woman, as a queer person, as a Chicana. So or I would like get in trouble or like in my financial livelihood, or, which is deeply rooted with our safe sense of safety and security would be threatened. So I was very conditioned that it was not safe to use my voice. It was not safe to be fully, authentically me and visible, because there would be very real dire consequences if I showed up as me in these spaces. 

04:11
And so take all of that baggage, that whole lifetime of conditioning and conditioning and establishing your sense of safety and like how you're supposed to be and what you should do, and then you go into business for yourself and I think we both work jointly, work with a lot of coaches, and you are your brand, like the brand is, you people are going to be working on one on one, and you follow business influencers and you follow influencers in the wellness industry and everyone's talking about. You have to be authentic and vulnerable and then your system goes into revolt. That goes like literally against everything you know about how to make it financially in business and how to be safe. And so I am branded myself as the marketing confidence cheerleader, because part of the work of being able to tell authentic, powerful, vulnerable stories where we can connect with our aligned clients is putting down a lot of that baggage, but in a really loving and compassionate and empathetic way because we learned it for a reason Off on standards there. 

05:19 - Andrea Moore (Host)
No, it's up, I love any tangency went off of. And I think at the beginning you said something that's so important of when this like financial safety piece is so embedded in that messaging. It's like really hard to undo that when you go into business for yourself, and because I think there's a lot of things out there if you follow, you know people that's like be true to yourself and do this and say what you think, and and I feel like there's not enough nuance to that of like sometimes it's actually not really objectively safe to do that or or and again, we can. I could go into a whole thing about how we define safety, but like right, it's like there there could be consequences that do not feel worth the speaking up. Like when you're like hey, you know it's speaking my mind on this thing would mean that like I, you know, let's say, you're a single mom with five children can't feed my kids. It's like, okay, maybe I really actually this. 

06:16
This is not the time and place to say my opinion, because right now, in this phase of my life, in this corporate position that I have that is granting me this luxury to you know, feed all these mouths. 

06:27
Like I might have to follow, and you might feel obligated to follow certain rules, and and so it's like I want to give just like so much compassion to anybody who's stuck with that. But then what you said of like, and then when you've leave that space, though, it's like you get to set all of that down, and it's really hard to do that, and I think you do a beautiful job of of helping people work through this, working with you. One of the things that was so powerful is to to have someone repeat back what you have to offer and actually believe in it. Like you said, like the cheerleader is like, such a like, a perfect word for what you do, and be like oh, someone else actually thinks this is, this is worthy, right, like actually has value. It's like that helps, I think, start to set some of that down. So much, absolutely, I feel like. 

07:16 - Isa Gautschi (Host)
One of my favorite thoughts I decided to think this last year was that I'm now defining safety for myself in this way and it is I trust myself to handle whatever comes my way with grace. Yes, the reason this is my favorite thought is because I think we are so taught to tie safety to external circumstances, when external circumstances are often not in our control at all. Actually, earlier this year I taught a workshop on the fear of visibility, which is like kind of like a buzz phrase that goes around a lot for people who feel like they're struggling to market or like explain the value of their work. And what we deconstructed in this workshop is I don't think it's a fear of visibility at all. It's a conditioned fear of other people's reactions to witnessing you and not having established the trusting yourself that you can handle other people's reactions, while accepting that you cannot control other people's reactions. 

08:18 - Andrea Moore (Host)
And. 

08:18 - Isa Gautschi (Host)
I'm seeing this like it's simple. 

08:20 - Andrea Moore (Host)
No, it's so huge though. Yes, I love that distinction. I love it. Yes. 

08:27 - Isa Gautschi (Host)
Yes. So I think one of the beautiful things about going into business for yourself and like figuring out you have all this baggage that might not be so in your face, smacking you in the head If you weren't being like what is this barrier to telling people I have something of value to offer and that I can help them Like you are lucky to have this come to the surface, because when you get to work through this baggage and really own your full story and step into this really courageous new version of yourself, it feels really empowering. Feels really empowering. But the hard stuff like this is hard stuff to grasp is, I think the hardest one for me is like I am not in control of anything anyone else does. 

09:12 - Andrea Moore (Host)
Oh my gosh. 

09:13 - Isa Gautschi (Host)
Yes, and so when I first realized that part of it was like, oh, I gotta release all this responsibility I was taking for other people's emotions and reactions and that feels nice to cause. That's a heavy burden. But then the scary part was then like, well, how is safety possible If I cannot control other people and how they react to me? How do I be safe? Which is what led me back to my favorite thing I decided to think last year, which is I trust myself to handle whatever comes my way with Grace. 

09:41 - Andrea Moore (Host)
Yes, I love that. 

09:44
It's so aligned to how I talk about safety too, of just like being able to just trusting yourself that you can move through whatever is presented, and I think it's such a fun thing to play with and I'll even, in terms of like the visibility piece I love your reframe on it Definitely gonna use that. 

10:04
What I'll even play with, too, is cause I just like to spice things up in my nervous system a little bit of like I'm just just trying to convince my nervous system in kind of like a lovingly playful way of like actually continuing to abide by the rules that's been abiding is actually not safe. Like you are now making me less safe by trying to soften my message or suppress it or get in my way, and there's ways to play with that. So it doesn't like create more barriers to sending your messages, but, right, it's like really helping my nervous system see that it is the authenticity, it is the putting myself out there that actually is gonna create more safety, because it does it's. But, like what you said, when you separate it from people's reactions, is the key of like people might react to me more, but it doesn't mean I'm any less safe. 

10:55 - Isa Gautschi (Host)
So that's such a good point, and especially when you think about it in terms of marketing, like, if you are quieting the parts of you that might offend anyone, then you will attract people who won't like those parts, which will keep you in the cycle of having to be less authentic and keep parts of yourself hidden. But when you put it all out there at front, you are going to repel people who are going to be offended by you and that's good for a lot of us, triggers rejection stuff and abandonment stuff. But then the people that stay are the people. You don't have to make yourself smaller around. 

11:28 - Andrea Moore (Host)
Yes, yes, I think that's so powerful. So I love the thoughts that you've given us so far about safety, and are there any other big thoughts that you kind of like cheerlead yourself for your clients with, when they're like, okay, I'm going to like put my message out there or I'm going to like say this thing that you find to be most helpful or supportive. 

11:53 - Isa Gautschi (Host)
Yes, well, one is like letting people know what a typical marketing trajectory looks like. 

12:01
I think a lot of us get very attached to seeing these overnight success stories, which I think there's often a lot of context that get left out of those narratives and then feeling like a failure when it takes some time, when actually my stats might be a little out of date, but when last I looked at research, it seems like on average any type of digital marketing you do, a typical trajectory is that it's going to take six to 12 months to really bear fruit. And then there's, like a famous graph by this Raw's Fischer sorry, rand Fishkin, I'm mixing things up. He's a famous SEO guy where it shows a typical cycle just about six months for SEO is that there's a little peak at the beginning, when you start working towards a goal, and then there's a big drop-off and it's labeled literally the slog. And then there's a contrasting line for how much effort you have to put in. So the effort line is going up, the results line is going down and it's literally labeled the gap of disappointment, because that is hard to get your nervous system to accept, like I'm going to be putting in a lot of work and not be getting results for a while. And so for a lot of small business owners or people that aren't familiar with this, that's when they quit not realizing. If they keep carrying the buckets, keep showing up, then that return on investment line goes up. 

13:24
But so it's not like a typical marketing trajectory, is not a just a straight up into the right line. It is a little swoopy curve, there is a slog to be expected and, like my business coach, sarah Bayer, likes to say, the day you plant the seed is not the day you harvest the fruit, and it's kind of like that. But, as you probably know, our nervous systems have a really hard time with this. Yes, 100% yeah. So there is like a lot of faith that has to happen, belief in yourself, belief in your work, belief in your people that you have to be able to provide to yourself before you get the external validation. And oh, that is a really good time to get a cheerleader and to get lots of emotional support and to be really investing in your own well-being, your own confidence, your own health, because you're going to quit without that. Because it's hard, it's challenging to be putting in the work and not see the results yet. 

14:28 - Andrea Moore (Host)
Oh my gosh. 

14:29
Yes, and I love that you spoke to this, because what I love about marketing stuff is like the more I learn about marketing, the more I'm like it just like parallels with inner work. 

14:38
So well, because I feel like it's really similar with inner work is like you you first like learn some new tools and things and it's like this massive improvement, and then for a lot of people it's just like plateaus, or then you start to become hyper aware of things and then it's like, oh my God, everything is going to shit almost. And the coaching world it's like the river of misery, right, where it's like you're seeing the gap between where you want to be and where you are, and it is tough, but the other way I look at it is. Then the only option remains is to either try to work towards filling that gap or to just stay where you are right Because or and potentially even go more downhill, depending on what's going on, because it's like, what else is the option right? But I think having that awareness and like nothing has gone wrong here, this is so normal, it's so helpful. So thank you for speaking to that. 

15:35 - Isa Gautschi (Host)
Absolutely Like. And the other thing I'd add to that is sometimes really gradual change or growth is a gift, like I've had like those. Just I actually think this is a rite of passage for like solopreneurs like you've got to like how you handle it when you host the webinar and no one shows up or you have a launch that flops Like. I feel like those are like part of how you earn your growth is how do you? They're like little tests for your belief and your faith in what you're doing and how you handle those is really like I'm going to do a podcast episode on this is like totally a rite of passage. So because I've had the other thing happen where I've unexpectedly like sold a ton, got a huge influx of clients and work and I immediately had a pain up the, so my body was like this is also not safe. 

16:26
We were talking a little bit on when you were on the podcast. There is a stable marketing pod. Like our bodies are kind of conditioned to perceive anything unfamiliar as a threat, even if it's an unfamiliar that we wanted, and so sometimes, like I think it's really a gift that things are moving slowly so you can expand your capacity slowly, because it is. You wouldn't guess it, but suddenly getting all the money, suddenly getting all the clients, suddenly getting all the recognition in the eyes on you, is a big change for your nervous system to have to figure out. 

17:02 - Andrea Moore (Host)
Oh my gosh. Yes, I think like it is just noticing that it is, there is something different now that is happening. I mean, some people, like you, can label it fear of success and stuff, but I think that throws people off. Sometimes they're like I'm not, I don't have that. It's just like it's not necessarily fear of success. It's just like things are different in your nervous system was like whoa. 

17:23
I remember when I upped my prices and instantly had a new client at like a significantly higher price because someone had convinced me to do it and I reeked she's like yeah, okay, I'm in. And I was like like wait a minute, you're supposed to say no. I was supposed to have like 50 no's before someone said yes to this and it was just so fascinating being able to witness that in my nervous system of wow, the reaction, even with this really positive thing, it was like such a good fit client. It was a really cool different package that I was offering, which is like a lot more support and like it felt so aligned in my nervous system so like freak the fuck out. And so it's like being able to handle those like nervous system freaks out, freak out and just see them for what they are is so helpful, and it's so helpful to have somebody like who's your cheerleader? Being like, okay, this is what's happening, it's totally normal. 

18:22 - Isa Gautschi (Host)
Yeah, totally. I think. Another like a question I've been exploring a little bit lately is like how am I more comfortable in disappointment than I am in getting all my needs met and more? Because I think part of me sometimes is like pre-planning for something I've experienced before and I find it like my body has a reaction when I try to like be like but what if this happened? Like, what if the thing I wanted happened? How would I feel? And my body kind of shuts down and I think there's some ancestral trauma and baggage in there and in a weird way, I sometimes feel safer thinking about how this could go wrong than I do thinking about how it could go right. 

19:08 - Andrea Moore (Host)
No, I think this is so huge to speak to and because I mean, I have this big time too, there is, like this comfort of like, okay, well, at least I didn't have to like make myself vulnerable and put myself out there and now be responsible for, you know, providing a service or a new service. If I'm offering something different, you know. But I think getting to notice how your system responds to what if this goes my way, what if this is exactly how I want it to go, and being able to like hold that and be with it and breathe with it is such is such a cool exercise to do. So I love that you're asking that question and I'll say it's interesting that you notice like your body shuts down. You know where I notice my body goes. 

19:55
What my thing is is. I'm like, oh, yeah, that would totally fine, like that'd be great, I have no problem with that right. And I go like really, really fast and my body like skip right past it, and then I have to get my body to slow down, to be like well, what would that be like? Then it freaks out and then I'm like, yeah, nice, nice, wait, I'm on to you way to try to avoid being with that body, but it's. I was just like noticing what really happens. It's like can you really sit with, like how good can it get? As one of my mentors would say, dr Valerie Rayne. She always asked that question like how good could it get? Can you even be with that like possibility, like can you hold that in your system? 

20:32 - Isa Gautschi (Host)
and I think, like for me personally, like in my history, like my genealogical history, like it literally was not safe to be wealthy or to be successful visibly. And then in like my personal history, I have like a lot of incidents for being punished for success, and I don't think that's uncommon for women, for women of color, you know. Like, I think there's some reasons your body might have an instinctual fear response to being like but what if it was good? But what if it was different? 

21:05 - Andrea Moore (Host)
you know, oh, my gosh, yes, yes, and I think this so goes into the nervous system side of things, of what we hold ancestrally, collectively and, like we see it all the time, still right of just women who are, you know, in power, who have money, who you know are putting themselves out there just like ripped apart for like zero reason. Right, it's like hi, some woman shows up on the internet. Wow, like what is she thinking wearing that? What is she thinking out? She sounds like in it what I would. You know what I mean if you look in the comments and it's just like tearing her down. I think this is so common and I think what you spoke to at the beginning of then like shifting it of. I can't control other people's reactions. It's just like coming to the safety of expecting that and like knowing that people will not like like you or they'll have things to say. And how do you? I don't know. I'm curious like what your clients, how you work with your clients around that when it's fear of just that, like social media kickback. 

22:12 - Isa Gautschi (Host)
That is such a great question. So I like to use the analogy of it's like inviting someone to your house. Your social media is like your house, so if you invite someone to your house, you can have rules. You can be like no shoes on the carpet or like, yeah, you can. Like you can set your boundaries beforehand. And I encourage, like my clients, to think about what are their social media boundaries before something happens, because it's harder to figure out when you're all activated in a situation. 

22:38
So if people are having this fear, I like to have them be like okay, so what would you tolerate in your comment section? Like, where's the line between when you would you feel it would be valuable to engage and when it would be valuable for you to block and delete? And I like to let them know you don't have to make this altruistic. This can be. This is your house. It can be what makes you feel most comfortable and able to show up in a way that feels good to you. Some of my clients will be like I actually like like. I have a client that works with people on body image and every now and then she'll get like a fat phobic troll in her comments and to her she decided before it happened. I would like to show people a healthy response to this where I am not getting triggered, where I am holding my ground and not letting this person rattle me and I'm like that is fantastic. So she was prepared beforehand for how to handle that and I was like but I also want you to be able to feel within yourself. If it's getting too hard for you Like that's also a good thing to model for your people to be like, at this point it feels too bad to keep engaging, I'm just going to block and delete and that, like you can totally take that on a case by case basis. So, yeah, it's like what are your rules of engagement? And so you get to have boundaries there just like you do anywhere else in your life, and how people respond to your boundaries is their business. All you can do is handle your side of the street. 

24:08
But one thing we work on is also someone having a negative reaction does not mean you did something wrong, which is, I think, where a lot of our heads immediately go, and sometimes my business coach has a great story about how someone was really triggered about hearing. 

24:24
The coaching is like this healing should be offered for free and that she, in her response to this person about here's why it's not free, she wound up getting a client out of it. But I think we are often served these people that mirror back our biggest fears about our business to yourself and a helpful way to look at it is okay. Well, now I get to answer this question, like for me, and it doesn't matter what they do with this, but now I have the opportunity to be like well, why do I charge? You know like? I think that's a big fear for people is like what if someone says I'm too expensive? What if someone says you're too expensive? What if? Why are you the price you are? And it gives you an opportunity to like, explain to yourself and integrate that belief, regardless of what the other person thinks. 

25:10 - Andrea Moore (Host)
Yes, I love the way you go about that. I love asking those questions and playing with like what triggers you up. It's like getting to it within reason, depending on how often you get triggered, but it's like getting to play with like why is this triggering? Like what is it about? This thing that is so like creates such a strong reaction in my nervous system. And it is so fascinating to walk through that process because I find very often it is not what you really think it's about. 

25:46
Let's take the fat phobic comment. Obviously there's like a surface level, Like it's rude, Like it's like right, it's like not what you stand for. There's so many really obvious things of why someone would be triggered by that. But I find, even if you allow yourself to explore further there might it might just be as simple as what it is, but often when it's like that, like hot deep, like you can't think you know your mind is going blank or seeing red type of reaction. I find there is something deeper in there that might be like related, but it's usually it goes to like this really survival piece that either happened in your lifetime or ancestral or something like that. So it's so fascinating to just allow yourself to really explore that thread of the trigger. 

26:34 - Isa Gautschi (Host)
Absolutely Like. I can talk from my own example, but, like for a while, my biggest fear was someone was going to tell me I was too expensive and what that really was for me was tapping into a fear like I'm not as good as I think I am. They're saying I'm not, my work isn't valuable. They're saying I'm not valuable and, like my perception of all of this is wrong. And that was very frightening for me. 

26:57
And sure enough, I did have someone be like why are you so expensive? I don't know why I'd have to pay this much early when I opened my business and what it gave me an opportunity to do and what I took forward carrying from this was like I actually went to a selfish reason and it feels best to me for why I justify my prices. And it's because I really care about doing amazing work for my clients. I want it to like change their businesses and their lives and for them to be so happy for it. And in order to do that, I can't resent you. Like I have on your team a thousand percent rooting for you and if I feel underpaid for that level of effort and skill and expertise, I'm going to resent you and I'm not going to be able to serve you the way I want to serve you, so that's why my price is what I did. 

27:45 - Andrea Moore (Host)
I love that answer yes, oh, that's so good, it's so I love where you came to with that. It's like doesn't have to be this massive altruistic answer. Sometimes it's like this is what is right and it's I mean, it's such a powerful answer because how can you serve someone when you're in resentment or when you have nothing left to give from? And I feel like charging certain amount gives you that ability. I know for me with my clients. I mean I definitely charge a good amount for the one-on-one because I'm providing a voxer support, which means they can access me at any time and like I'm responding to them and so it does take a good amount of energy and it means like before sessions I'm spending time getting into the right state. 

28:26
After sessions I have to like decompress and like I can't do back to back to back. I find my quality of work goes down in one to one if I'm doing that. So it's like, yeah, maybe you are quote unquote paying for an hour session not that my sessions are ever just an hour, because we usually run way over is another thing. Right, like I have to like block off two hours on my client, but that's like it's actually probably two and a half hours for every one hour that I'm showing up for a client. So there has to be some level of feeling like I am able to show up in a way that is not leaving me in resentment either. 

29:02 - Isa Gautschi (Host)
I'm so with you on that, but also I think like a thing we get into that is weird is like people are literally never paying for your time because they're also paying for all of your expertise, your degrees, your personal journey, your work, how much time you spent thinking on this, all of your experience with past clients, your ability to synthesize all of this and you very unique body of information in a way that they can understand and connect and relate with. It is not just your hour. You're with them. 

29:33 - Andrea Moore (Host)
They are paying for all of it so true and I appreciate the reminder of that, issa, I think we all need that. Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. So I'm also so curious in you taking the pain to power program, if you don't mind me asking of, like, where do you find overlaps, or what, being able to work on your nervous system in a different way, or, I guess, what opened up for you a bit through that, especially in terms of either, like, personal life or how you work with clients now? 

30:00 - Isa Gautschi (Host)
Oh, that's a good one. I think I'm going to overshare a little bit, because that's what I do, but I can overshare. So I grew up in a pretty abusive context and one of the ways as my smart body learned to navigate was how to like manage other people's emotional reactions, or how I could kind of like become this little peaceful manipulator yeah, for how to minimize threats around me, which was a smart skill to develop as a child when I couldn't get out of that situation but without like unpacking. That. That's just how I went through the world, like I'll just like be this little peaceful manipulator to minimize threats around me. But where that leaves me is a like taking a lot of responsibility for other people's stuff and trying to control stuff that wasn't my business to control and is not controllable anyway, and then be kind of losing me in there, you know. So if my entire orientation is around appeasing you and making yourself safe, making you feel safe and good, like where what I'm disconnected from is my needs and my desires, and this was really reflected early in my business by offering too many stuff, things under pricing, having wild scopes of work that would go away over the lines, and so opening my business and like had that really reflected to me, but I hadn't really unpacked it very much till pain to power, where I had to start noticing when was my pain showing up? And it was when I was either being assigned or taking on responsibility for other people's stuff that wasn't mine. And then also, like it really highlighted for me this drive to control the environment around me for safety as much as possible, which really showed up in overworking. 

31:54
So one of the big revelations I had in your program was that if it wasn't for my migraine, say, literally would not rest All the time, I'd be networking and be you know doing all this stuff which really like mirrors, like I derived my safety at that time from trying to control like as much as I could. And so what my body was stepping in and doing with the migraines is being like telling me when I needed to rest and also telling me when relationships weren't healthy. Like if, in order to be safe, I had to take on that much. My body would sometimes just shut down if because I wasn't picking up the understanding that this wasn't a safe circumstance and the response to an unsafe circumstance is no longer To be a peace manipulator like I had to when it was a kid and now is to just get out. 

32:48
My body was trying to like yank the fire alarm and be like something's really wrong here. We need to readjust and you're not listening to any of the other intuitive hits, so we're going to take drastic action. Yes, so those were some really big revelations I had in Paint to Power that I'm really grateful for. The other thing I'm grateful for is the way you brought up like the nervous system ladder, and how you can't go right from like shut down to safe and social. You have to pass through sympathetic and that's normal and natural. I feel like you helped me understand when my body was having a fear response that I wasn't aware of and then also the ancestral trauma part was so powerful. 

33:37
I'm like oh, this baggage about money and like success is not, it's not even mine. 

33:43 - Andrea Moore (Host)
Yes, oh, my goodness that. Thank you for sharing all of those. I think these are such massive awarenesses and it was so cool to like see you have those in real time. And I think what you're speaking about the responsibility piece especially I want to touch on because I know that's a big theme for me and I see it. Oh my gosh, I don't know. 

34:05
Like every client has this almost to some extent of just taking on responsibility for things that, like are just not theirs and often what it leads to is neglecting responsibilities in their own life At least that's me. It's like I'll just worry about everybody else and micromanage everybody else but like totally neglect myself. Right, because I like your term, the peaceful manipulator. Right, because it's like we learn as kids, I can like manage people in this way. If I can show up in this way, then there is peace around me, I am safer, there's less reactivity or whatever it might be, and I love the compassion you speak to that part with of like what a smart, adaptive role you took on and it's such a beautiful, beautiful way to look at it because it's so true, like it's so freaking smart, the body is so smart, and then we grow up where we get out of a situation and we have to help the body see there's like a next phase we get to move into and those like protective patterns are just no longer. 

35:08
You're no longer needed. It's like you've grown out of it. So thank you for sharing all of that. I think it's so, so valuable. 

35:14 - Isa Gautschi (Host)
Oh, thank you, I absolutely loved that program. 

35:17 - Andrea Moore (Host)
Yeah, I'm so I'm so glad to hear that and I'm so curious. I know for me, working with you, one of the most helpful things was, I guess, one being heard like getting to word vomit to you. And also I felt like it was so helpful for me to really understand more of where my own fears were and have someone articulate things back to me like I cannot ever under like understand how helpful it is to just have someone to talk to about things. And but one of my big hangups in marketing has been how to speak about what I do without over promising or that promising something I can't get to. So one of the big things is I was like I don't want to be one of those people that's like I heal chronic pain like whoa, like guess what? Overnight we're just going to do this magic thing and pain is just going to go away. And and one I just want to say how much I appreciated how respectful you were of that. But since working with you and you providing different language, what's so, what's so ironic is that I've actually gotten more comfortable with saying that, because I've really sat down and like defined for myself more and more what, what healing means to me and ultimately healing isn't being pain free, because it's ridiculous, because, like humans will never be completely pain free because we're humans and understanding. 

36:41
I guess I'm like very being very long winded about this of like in marketing, especially when you have a service to offer and you're putting your business out there and there's like there's competition, like you're trying to show up, you're trying to set yourself apart of I think there's like so much value and putting your ego and pride aside and being like I don't know how to say this in a way that gets people to resonate, like I tend to and I got told this a lot and I was a little bit better about the time I got to you but like it's not good at all at the beginning of my business is like I would speak at such a high level of like neuroscience that people are talking about, right, I'm like I have this like really valuable thing, but I don't know how to explain it. It'd be so I still am overly wordy, please. But like he's so overly wordy, I would just like see people glaze over and be like what on earth you have lost me? And in the beginning, right, I made it mean something about me and what I have isn't a value Nobody wants this when really the problem was I'm not a marketer, I never learned how to use words, and so having someone like you to put that into words for me was just very helpful, and I feel like I was going to go somewhere where that now I've just like completely like lost my own train of thoughts. 

37:55
But really just to be like what story are you making up about things is really what it is right, because the story I was making up was that my business it's not going to work out, whereas the problem was I just didn't have the right words. 

38:08 - Isa Gautschi (Host)
Yeah, I think an interesting distinction for particularly like for coaches or service providers that are like doing one on one, is what they think marketing is is describing them, describing them and what they do when marketing really is this building connections with other people. So when you think about customers, your process, your credentials are like bottom of the list of what they care about. What they care about first is can you help them? Yes, you help them with something they want help with I'm sorry if you hear my dog snoring back there like they want to know, like can, can you help me? Like a do you get me and where I'm coming from? Can you help me? And will it suck like will I enjoy being helped by you? And then the last thing is like OK, I think I'm going to make this investment, but I'm having some fears come out. Then they want the reassurance that you can do what they you say you're going to do. 

39:10
And so I think that, like what we talk about a lot in squad, which is my group marketing confidence cheerleading program, is like so process is not the thing they care about. That is never what should be in the big print in on your sales page or the message you lead with. What they care about, yes, is the results, but when we say results, that's a scary word that I think hangs up a lot of people, because they're like, like you said, they don't want to over promise or say they can do something they can't guarantee. But how I like to think about this, in a way that makes my nervous system feel better, is showing them what's possible. What is possible and, yes, you can't guarantee it because you can't do the work for them that they will need to get that result, but it is so. One of the most powerful emotions is hope. So if your marketing can give them hope, like so, here you are right now, what if this was possible for you? And then, because I know I are people and what if you deserve that reality? 

40:08
Yes you know. So those are powerful messaging points I like to teach my people because we often have similar audiences where, like, help them imagine something A they didn't know was possible for them and what or is on the furthest edge of what they scarcely dare imagine. And. B let them know why they deserve that. And because if your marketing can do that and if they never buy anything from you ever and they just encountered your marketing and it made them hope and then made them feel like they are worthy of what they want, they already got something awesome out of it. 

40:44 - Andrea Moore (Host)
Yeah, I love that so much. 

40:46 - Isa Gautschi (Host)
And then also the results. It doesn't have to be you'll never have this problem again or you'll never be triggered again, because that immediately brings the trust way down. But, like, I would love to paint a picture. But what if? Like, I think, what if? Is such a powerful question. Like, what if this was your life after working with me for six months? What if, when a trigger came up, it didn't ruin your whole day because you had tools for how to process it? Yes, what if you learned what your chronic pain was trying to tell you and were able to address those circumstances so it doesn't have to come up as a pull the fire alarm sort of situation as much which is certainly what happened for me, by the way, after pain to power, when I was like, oh, I need to rest more, oh, I need to get out of toxic relationships, like my pain had less reason to show up. Yes, I was getting a message before it had to. 

41:39 - Andrea Moore (Host)
Love it Totally. What's so funny is like hearing you ask those questions. I'm like, yeah, that's great, that's exactly what I do. And I just want to like speak to my nervous system. It's like amazing how, like you writing it out for me or saying it back right now, I'm like so much more comfortable with it. And yet when I like still go to like write things, I'm like am I allowed to say this? And like I still have all so much shit come up. 

42:05
But when I go and I look at this like beautiful branding packet that Issa gave me that, like you know, she obviously knows my work literally inside and out because she went through it and we got to have all this talk and I'm like, oh, here's what Issa said about it. Oh, I can totally write that. I can totally give that to somebody else to write. So I do just like really want to say, for anybody who is like me and still has all kinds of marketing shit, even though, like I have done inner work for a long time on this and it's like it's still there, I have some like really deep things around this and I have run my business for three, four years now without you know, like as a full-time thing. You know like I've still made it work even with all these fears present. 

42:47
But it's like it's okay to find a way to make it have more ease around it, right Cause it's like now, when I do it, what I've been playing a lot with is like kind of using your words and like, for whatever reason, they just feel so much safer in my nervous system. Because, yes, it's like apparently, me coming up with my own stuff is not okay yet, but it's like then I just build the safety around that, right, and it's like, slowly, I'm already noticing a shift and like how, in that it is time for me to like just use my own words or maybe I am making my own posts or I'm not looking at your thing that it's like already coming with more ease and so that's been really, really cool. So I just appreciate that so much about working with you. 

43:26 - Isa Gautschi (Host)
Oh, thank you so much for telling me that. That makes me really happy. Yeah, not that there's still discomfort, but that it's helping build capacity to be able to claim the awesomeness of your work. 

43:38 - Andrea Moore (Host)
Totally. I've come to terms with discomfort being a thing always and growth right. It's like there's always gonna be a level of discomfort there. So, yeah, well, tell people a little bit more about where they can find you and if you have any last words for people. 

43:56 - Isa Gautschi (Host)
Ooh, I guess I just wanna leave people with. Like you wouldn't have started your business if it wasn't valuable and needed. Like there was a reason you got calls to do what you're doing. And then, in terms of how to work with me and follow me, if you could use the marketing confidence cheerleader, you can work with me one-on-one or join squad, which is the group of eccentric entrepreneurs all doing the impossible in real time. I also have a brand storytelling package, which is what I did for Dr Andrea when she was referencing about being able to pull from and give to people she works with on their marketing. That is available for purchase. My website is mesa-messagingcom M-I-S-A-messagingcom. Probably be in the show notes, it will be. Yes, yeah, you can figure out how to work with me there. On Instagram, I'm at marketing confidence cheerleader. Same on YouTube and TikTok, I am at confidence cheerleader and I'd love to connect with you. 

44:55 - Andrea Moore (Host)
Yes, I love it. Thank you so much for being here and for all those. It's just this super valuable conversation. Thank you so much for having me. I love your podcast. 

45:04 - Isa Gautschi (Host)
Thank you.