Finding Joy in Movement: Kim Hagel's Fresh Approach to Fitness

0:00:00 - Speaker 1
Do you have a complicated relationship with exercise and movement. You want to do more of it, but every time you do, you can't help but fall into shame judgment, not feeling good enough, and that just makes you never want to move again, not to mention the addition of chronic pain on top of that all. But also there is this part of you that wants to move your body, that wants to feel strong, that wants to feel a certain way, and it just feels like there is such a conflict. If so, this episode is for you. I had the absolute pleasure of sitting down with the amazing Kim Hagel. She is a size-inclusive fitness specialist, holistic nutritionist and body image coach, as well as the founder of Radiant Vitality Wellness. Kim hosts the Joyful Movement Show podcast, where she inspires women to think differently about movement and their bodies so they can find lasting motivation and real results. She offers functional fitness training and quality behavioral coaching, and she helps women get to the root of their motivation struggles so they can feel great in and about their body. 

Welcome, welcome, welcome to episode 75 of the Unweaving Chronic Pain podcast. I am your host, dr Andrea Moore, founder of the Whole Self Integration Method, and I am on a mission to help empathic entrepreneurs, conscious experts, sensitive rebels and anyone else who is feeling trapped by their chronic pain, to not only alleviate their pain but liberate success, liberate their authentic self and expression so they can walk into the world fully grounded and confident in who they are and share gifts in the world, while breaking cycles. And if you've been listening in for the past couple weeks and welcome welcome to any new listeners. Thank you so much for being here. You've heard me talk about an upcoming workshop. Well, that has just been growing into something bigger than just a workshop. I was trying to cram too many things in and I decided to switch it a bit to be a much more immersive experience and much more expansive experience, rather than try to cram things down your throat. In two hours or so, I am expanding it out to be a beta test of a portion of my course that I'm reworking a little bit. 

This method is tried and true. However, the way I'm delivering it is shifting just a little bit and I want to invite you to be a beta tester of it for free, which means you get access to some of my best materials, as well as access to support from me as you are working through them. These materials are not only going to break the cycle of pain, but they are also going to show you how to walk through the whole self integration method, all four steps of it. If you want to be a part of this, then click the link in the show notes and make sure you apply for your spot in that program. 

It's going to be launching on August 10th, so we start soon, and it's going to be through the next week, so there's going to be three live sessions on August 10th, the 15th and the 17th, with tons of support and interaction in between. So make sure to get signed up today so you do not miss this. And even if you can't make it live, don't worry, the replays will be provided. So go click that now, because if you're anything like me, you think that you're going to remember to do it at the end of this episode, but you're not, or is that just me? All right now, please stay tuned for the absolute, amazing gold and wisdom of Kim. All right, welcome, welcome, kim. It is so exciting to have you on this podcast. 

0:04:10 - Speaker 2
Thanks so much for having me, Andrea. I'm excited to be here. 

0:04:12 - Speaker 1
Yes, and I think this is going to be so valuable because movement is such an important piece of our bodies, of our lives, and becomes extremely problematic when chronic pain is involved. So I was so delighted to talk to you and learn about you and see how you approach it from this really beautiful, joyful movement way. And yeah, so why don't you tell people a little bit about yourself and what got you to where you are today? 

0:04:41 - Speaker 2
Well as many of us. It's a story. It's a long and winding road. I am a size inclusive personal trainer and a body image coach. I have not always been a body image coach and I have not always been a size inclusive trainer. I've been personal training for about 12 years and even that is kind of not the career you would have ever expected me to have. I was never an athletic person. I was actually that kid who was picked last for all the sports teams. Growing up like for real. It was a real thing. I had a lot of like baggage around movement, let's say. 

But I kind of discovered exercise in my 30s when I was a stay at home mom. I had three kids and I was struggling with my own body image. I was actually I was struggling with my identity truthfully, like being home with all these kids and not working. I was like, who am I right? And like many, I thought if I can just fix my body, I'll feel better about this weird place that I'm finding myself in. Had a long history with dieting not a lot of success with that, obviously so knew I didn't want to go down that path again. So a friend of mine had had success with hiring a personal trainer and I was like, maybe that's the missing piece, maybe if I get this exercise thing sorted out, that'll be the thing. So I found a really great trainer and she came and worked with me at my house while my baby was napping and, honest to God, it was like so wonderful. It was the first time in my life that I actually enjoyed exercise. I felt so strong and powerful in my body, like I loved what I was doing. I loved how I was feeling. 

But because of all this history that I had, what started off as a really, you know, healthy and powering habit very quickly turned into something obsessive and disordered exercise kind of became. I joke about how it became like my full time job, because I was doing it so much and that's what led me to become a personal trainer is like I'm already exercising so much I may as well like make money off of this. So that's what I did, and so I became a trainer about 12 years ago and for the first part of my career I tried to help people lose weight through movement, very unsuccessfully. It was very frustrating career right, because, as we know, weight loss isn't sustainable for the vast majority. I was having difficulty myself maintaining my weight loss and eventually led to an eating disorder because I felt so much pressure to maintain the body changes that I had experienced right and I had been told in becoming a personal trainer, like your body is your business card and all these things. So you know, it became really toxic. 

But I kept that up for many, many years until my life took some pretty big turns and I wasn't able to maintain the same level of perfection that was required to keep my body looking the way that it did right. I had to let go of some of that perfection and in that my body changed. I gained some weight and I felt like a fraud in my industry. I felt like I didn't belong because my body was my business card. I was like, who am I to be talking about fitness if this is the body I'm in? 

So I actually left the industry for a couple of years and went and did some of my own work, learned about intuitive eating, worked with a coach on my own body image, and it was in doing that work that I realized just how much toxic messaging is coming out of the fitness industry, like how, all of the like no pain, no gain, burn this sculpt that really is leaving people behind and keeping them from experiencing the true benefits of movement, like all of the amazing mental health and pain relieving, and like strength and stamina type benefits that come from a regular movement practice, because we're just so obsessed with it being about weight loss or shaping your body. So it was in learning all of that and doing all that work for myself that I was drawn back to the fitness industry as a size inclusive trainer, and I added on the body image coaching, because I think what's at the root of a lot of our struggles with movement right, a lot of our motivation and willpower issues really start with our core belief that our body is a problem to be fixed. 

0:08:21 - Speaker 1
Oh my gosh, yes, I like so much you said that what's coming on. But, oh my, I just love, love, love how you laid this out, because I think it speaks to so many of people's journeys that they've experienced, or maybe they're stuck, all you know, somewhere along the path. Because what really stood out the most and what I really want to comment on because I hear it from a lot of people is that exercise makes them feel really good. It's like what you said when you first kind of got into. It is like my body felt strong and amazing and capable. 

0:08:50 - Speaker 2
And we lose sight of that. Yes, yes, we feel that and we're like that if I'm not losing weight, if my body's not changing, then all of this stuff that I'm doing isn't working. Yes, you know. And then the motivation dwindles off and we quit doing it, and then we lose out on all of those other good feelings. 

0:09:07 - Speaker 1
Totally. And it's so fascinating because exercise does just like food too, right, like food is wrapped up in so much, like we need movement as humans. But it's like this societal conditioning has just managed to like wrap up all the good and like inject it with all these beliefs and thoughts that kind of ruin it, for lack of a better way to say it. And that's actually where, like the name of the podcast, the Unweaving Chronic Pain, that's what this is about. It's like unweaving out the negative beliefs and beliefs that are just straight up wrong. 

Oh, that's what's so frustrating is I don't know why this image was coming in so strongly when you're talking. I was just like remembering when I was in college. I also was very much of the belief like you only exercised if you wanted to lose weight. There was no other reason. Like in my mind, there was no other reason to exercise, only had to exercise if you wanted to lose weight. And I happened to be blessed with thin jeans and like I am totally one of those body types that just never really had a struggle with my weight and so I didn't exercise because I was like why would I exercise? That's stupid. 

0:10:09 - Speaker 2
I would have put myself through that torture Exactly. 

0:10:12 - Speaker 1
Thank God I don't have to worry about that. I got enough shit to worry about. And then I remember, because I was a movement science major, sitting in physiology class I feel like this is a physiology 201 or something and them talking about the benefits of exercise that had nothing to do with weight loss and everything to do with mental health and all the other systems of your body, and, in fact, them specifically talking about how exercise really doesn't correlate with weight loss, and this was back in 2006. We know that exercise has nothing to do with weight loss. It's so enraging to hear about it because I've never been like deep in the fitness industry, but it's so enraging to hear that that's what's taught, because I'm like it's not even accurate. 

0:10:56 - Speaker 2
It's true, the science doesn't support exercise. It's a weight loss strategy. Why do we do it, though? Because it sells. Yes, it's a deep insecurity of so many people. I think, going back to when I was first becoming a personal trainer, it was like sell people what they want and then give them what they need, and if people think they want weight loss and they're not enlightened to the fact that most people can't sustain weight loss in the long term like over 95% of people can't sell them on that insecurity and probably it won't work, but that's okay because they'll keep coming back. 

0:11:25 - Speaker 1
Yeah, that's just so atrocious. 

0:11:29 - Speaker 2
It really is. Yeah, if you want to know what, to smash the patriarchy as I do. It's so oppressive as well. 

0:11:34 - Speaker 1
Yes, and I think you spoke to right. The most important piece there is that, like, at the end of the day, the reason why it sells is because it is picking on people's insecurities. That's what it really came down to. It's like that if I could just lose some weight, then I'll feel better about myself. That discomfort of having to be with yourself. We will do anything to get out of that, including just endless exercise and cycling and food stuff. What helped you get out of that? 

0:12:03 - Speaker 2
Oh, gosh, I mean really like looking at all of these beliefs, as you say, right, unweaving and all. Like picking this all up and working with a body image coach and exploring like are these things true? Is it true that if you change your body, if you lose weight, that you're going to feel different and you don't right? And when I had to really look at that truthfully and like you know, it's true. 

Like even at the height of my eating disorder, even at my smallest, I still was so insecure about my body, like I still would never wear a two-piece bathing suit and show my stomach, like I still felt. Like even after I had lost all the weight, I thought, well, I just need to tone more, I need to sculpt more muscle. Like there was no end game to this, I need more to shoot for. Like I never felt that confidence that I assumed I would when I reached my goals. And it was in looking at that and really being honest about that that I realized, like what was at the root of it right and so, yeah, that's what. 

0:12:57 - Speaker 1
And I want to like even highlight that, just because I think I hear a lot from people of like the look back on pictures of themselves and they're like, look like, no, I can see this. I feel so much more confident when I see this body. I felt so much better. And I think you touched on something really important and you're like, when I really put myself back in that place, I didn't feel that way. And I think, like you really want to highlight that difference of like how you feel now looking back at a picture of yourself is very different than how did you feel when that picture was taken. 

0:13:25 - Speaker 2
Yes, and I think we can fall into a trap of mistaking confidence for safety, the perceived sense of safety, when our body conforms closer to the so called ideal right and we receive a lot of validation and praise from people were constantly being told we look good and like you were working so like there's so much great stuff we're hearing and we can mistake that for confidence. Like it feels really good to fit in and belong and that's our safety need being fulfilled. But if you're being honest about it, or when I was really honest about that, it's like on the heels of this so called confidence was a whole lot of anxiety and insecurity. But like what? If I gain the weight back, like what people think of me, then like that's what led to the obsession and the eating disorder was like I have to do everything I can to maintain this body. That was not. That was not confidence. 

0:14:17 - Speaker 1
No, yeah, it's like if those comments get taken away, will you still feel confident? Is the way to check in with that if all of a sudden you're not getting, as one of my mentors said, that, the patriarchal cookies or the praise cookies or something I can remember. But it's like right if those aren't being fed to you anymore and you're not having that reinforcement from society. The fear of injury or the fear of pain is so big because it's like that's what gets taken away from. People is like now my body cannot look a certain way or be a certain way because if I'm in pain or if I get injured, exercise is taken away from me and that's how I'm maintaining my looks or a certain aesthetic like. I've had multiple clients that have this and it leads to such a hyper vigilance in the system because they feel one little ache or pain and it's like it spirals out of control, because it's like, oh my God, if I have an injury like that, I can't exercise and I can't do all this stuff. 

0:15:08 - Speaker 2
I have experience that and I never was able to put words to it till you just said that. But yeah, I had all kinds of injuries when I was exercising obsessively, obviously, and that was a real fear, right, like what am I going to do? So then food. The thing I had to focus on, right, was like, well, if I can't exercise, then I have to restrict food to keep this body shape. 

0:15:28 - Speaker 1
Yes, it is really scary, and so I'm curious of like, especially since you've experienced that it's like either like focusing on exercise or focusing on food. It's like what else could be focused on that feels better. 

0:15:41 - Speaker 2
Yeah, like yeah yeah yeah, but I mean, what I've learned from you and from the other coaches I've worked with is like supporting yourself from the inside out, right. Like focusing your emotional and mental well being, like regulating your nervous system and building true confidence, like building your sense of worth and knowing that you're enough, like you are valuable and worthy and you belong just because you exist, right. Yeah, some people might validate you more and praise you more in a certain body, but is that actually about you or is it about them? Right, and there's going to be people who approve of you or don't approve of you, no matter what you do in life. So I think the real thing is developing your own confidence, like having your own back, like really truly believing that you are enough and like knowing that, matter what anybody else thinks or what you look like or what you do or what you achieve, oh yes, it's so beautiful. 

0:16:35 - Speaker 1
It's so beautiful and so obviously it's like you've done all this work. But you're still working as a personal trainer. It's not like you're like fuck up movement, we're not doing it anymore, right I? 

0:16:43 - Speaker 2
think we're a bit. 

0:16:47 - Speaker 1
I actually want to touch on that. I find with the clients that have this what I was talking about around exercise there almost needs to be this period of time where they really are completely stepping out of it and maybe they're doing a totally different type of movement or they're just walking or swimming. When they were doing weightlifting, you know, it's like they're completely doing like a 180 and then often they do move back into it. It's like after they've kind of done some of the moving out of the beliefs that aren't helping. So that's funny that you kind of found that same thing. So now that you've come back to personal training and come back to movement, how do you approach it now? 

0:17:18 - Speaker 2
Well, I think it's all about moving to feel good, movement as an act of self care, as a way to feel good about this body, as opposed to trying to fix the body right like it's a perspective change. I have my clients focus on real life goals and even still even with people knowing what I do and how I do it like I'll still have people come for consultations and say they want to lose weight because we're just so ingrained to think that right like that's just so. 

But I'll ask questions like what is it you think will happen when you lose weight? And that's where we get to. The real issue is like well, I think I'll have less pain in my knees or I'll be able to get up and down off the floor easier, or I'll be able to climb the stairs without getting winded. So that's what we latch on to. Those are your real life goals. Those are the things that are actually make a difference in your life and they're a whole lot more measurable. I think they're a lot easier to track than just weight right. So this assessments are a whole lot easier, like, okay, how easy is it to get down on the floor today on a scale of zero to 10, and we check in in three months and see how easy it is. Then, after we do some targeted movement that specifically works on that goal, as opposed to just like high intensity interval training all the time. Yes, fat right Totally. 

And what I've noticed is that people can do a whole lot less and still get great results. I have some older clients and people with lots of mobility issues and they come in twice a week for 45 minute sessions and we do low impact, very gentle movement and they've experienced great results right Less pain and greater mobility, more strength, more stamina. And it's surprising to learn that it doesn't have to be so all or nothing. It doesn't have to be six days of one hour of the hardest. You can go forever right. We can do a whole lot less and get really great results. 

0:19:03 - Speaker 1
Totally, oh my gosh, absolutely. It's amazing how freaking adaptable the body is, especially when we're approaching it from like a place of love and respect versus like, ah, I need to do this, and so I'm curious. I know like it's so hard for so many to find motivation to exercise, so I'm curious, like what you see behind that most commonly and how you approach that. 

0:19:24 - Speaker 2
Yeah, it's a big struggle and I think most of us get motivation entirely backwards, like we think that it's something outside of us right, like we either need somebody to bring the motivation, like I'll have clients say, like I need you to motivate me, I need you to hold accountable, or we think that motivation will come after we see results, or we think it's a product of rewards. Incentives Like these are the things we try to do to get ourselves motivated and none of them work, like I'm sure you've tried. I'm almost a challenge. They don't work right. But what I've learned in becoming a coach is that our feelings are created by our thoughts and motivation is a feeling, it's an emotion we feel. So when we're thinking thoughts like exercise sucks and it's hard, or it has to be hard to be effective and the only point of doing it is to lose weight. 

It's really hard to feel motivated right when we have all this no gain stuff it's like that leads us to feeling inadequate, pressured, guilty, ashamed, Like they're not conducive to motivation. So I really dug into this and what science shows is the things that create motivation are the way we think about movement right Feeling successful, like liking the things that we do, and feeling like we're good at it or at least can become good at it with practice. Having a sense of autonomy over what we're doing, so having choices about how we move our body, instead of just the instructor always barking at you and making you go harder and do the burpees, even if you hate them. Being able to choose the variation of a movement that feels good for you. Having a sense of community is very modern. Being around people who are like-minded and support you like truly have your back. 

And then the other thing that a more recent study has shown is that when we get results that actually improve our day-to-day functioning, our actual health and our functional fitness, that's very motivating, like less pain in your knees and being able to get up and down off the floor and climb the stairs without getting winded, Like those are the types of things that keep people moving. But the studies have also shown like this is proven in science that if we focus on weight loss or body shaping as our main why for exercising, we're going to struggle with motivation. People who have that as their main motivator are not consistent in the long-term statistically. And it makes sense because that's really coming from a root belief that my body is a problem I need to be fixed. It makes you feel like shit about yourself and you don't want to do anything. 

0:21:40 - Speaker 1
Yes, yes, oh my gosh, absolutely, and like, as you've already put it, it's just like you can't exercise a negative body image anyway. So it's like even if you could find the willpower to keep going, it's going to run out. Yeah, and it's like I think it's so. Oh my God, I don't know why. This is on my mind too. It's just like, I think it's so common. I know I'll fall into this trap about like, other things of like. 

0:22:02 - Speaker 2
If I could just have the willpower, then it would work right, yeah, willpower is a limited resource and I think we're not told about that either. Like, willpower is a very miraculous, like ability of our brain to survive life or death situations. Right, like, if you're being chased by a bear, like you can use willpower to like get up a tree right. 

Or if you're like truly starving, if you're in a famine situation, you can use willpower to ration out the limited food that you have, and that's great. It's not something that we're meant to rely on every day to just live a normal, healthy lifestyle. 

0:22:33 - Speaker 1
Totally. I'm just calling it out because I catch myself in that I'm like why am I like having this? Why am I setting up my week as if I'm all of a sudden going to have willpower when I've never fucking had it ever? Why would next week be different? It's like the same as just setting up my goal of well, tomorrow I'll be able to like fly, so therefore I can like set up my life in accordance to that. Like that is the equivalent of like relying on willpower. Like it literally makes no sense. And I'm going to say to somebody who talks about thought, work and what's your body's holding, I'm just gonna freaking find myself in that damn willpower trap or this assumption that I'm going to wake up tomorrow with all the motivation in the world. 

Energy and motivation in the world. 

0:23:11 - Speaker 2
Yeah, yeah, because our brains are so silly, they're so silly and they do silly things. That's okay, they're hilarious. 

0:23:19 - Speaker 1
They really are just like, yeah, it's great. And so you have a podcast yourself. It's called Joyful Movement. And so how do you help bring joy into movement? Because I think it's really common that exercise, because of all this stuff, becomes this like heavy feeling in our bodies or we have certain expectations of what it needs to look like, and so bringing joy to it can feel so counterintuitive or even counterproductive, especially someone's like yeah, but if it's joyful, then how could I be burning enough calories or being productive enough for it to count? Right, yeah, yeah. 

0:23:57 - Speaker 2
So your joy can be really loaded for people, Like it's supposed to be, this blissed out like nirvana experience, all like the runner's high every time and that's not what it is Right Like. Even I have that 90% of the time. But I think what I mean by joyful movement is knowing that what you're doing is benefiting you, that it feels good, that it feeds you, that it's a way to care for your body and just connect with yourself. So how we do that, I have a whole like manifesto about joyful movement. Like I have 10 principles that I kind of mirrored off of the principles of intuitive eating for those who are familiar with that. 

But it starts by first rejecting all of those rules and shoulds. I call them the gym police that tell us what movement is supposed to look like to be right. Like just forget the fact or the idea that it should be an hour to be effective, or it has to be hard in order to be working, or you have to be burning calories or losing weight. Like just kind of allow that to not be true. But that aside, and then start thinking about like if movement weren't about burning calories, if it weren't about losing weight, what's in it for me, why would I do it? And if you're not sure, it's okay to take a full stop. And like you said we talked about this briefly like I did that too, like I had to just back away from all types of formal exercise for a while because in my brain it was like, why would I lift a weight if not to improve the metabolic capacity of my muscles and burn more calorie? Why would I go for a run if not to burn fat? Like I just couldn't get it. So I stopped everything, backed away and I only did what felt good. 

And what I learned in taking that full stop is that our bodies do want to move, Like we are meant for movement. Our body wants to move. But sometimes you have to stop before you can get in tune with your own movement cravings. And they're in there. Like, just as you crave certain types of foods when you need certain nutrients, your body craves certain types of movement when it needs to feel a certain way. So eventually, like I started lifting weights again. 

I haven't run for a while because it hurts, but that's a whole other issue. I would like to get back to running. That's what we're doing in my pain to power program. I'm working with Andrea. You know, like the body does start to ask for these things and I'll start to moralize weight lifting or running, either, Like if your body never craves those things, there's nothing wrong with you. But you know your body will ask to like dance, or you know it'll ask for things that feel good and that benefit you. So you know it's about building that trust back in yourself that your body wants to feel good, it wants to feel and function as best, and it will let you know what it needs. 

0:26:23 - Speaker 1
I love that and I want to come back to the running thing in a second. But I also just want to touch on is like I think what you said about stopping and like listening to your movement cravings is so important, because we're all born into this world in such different bodies and personalities and genetics and all that stuff, and it's like different bodies are really going to crave different types of movements. There are bodies that like the more slow, low intensity type movement, where there's bodies that are like the heavy weightlifting and the hit training right, like it's like that stuff works really well, but it's like we fitness industry tends to focus on one body type, so it's almost just going to be okay that maybe your body's movement cravings are something else that you just never thought of as moving. 

0:27:04 - Speaker 2
And that can take a lot of, like internal work to be okay with that being okay, right. So like just to normalize that that it's not a flick of a switch, that oh, I'm just going to be okay with what feels good for me. That can take a little bit of unpacking, but yeah, that's the whole idea. 

0:27:18 - Speaker 1
Totally. It's why I don't have exercise within my programs, because one, I don't know how I could even go about even just having some, because it's like people have asked for it and I'm like I can't. It just feels like on a one on one basis, I will work with people to like unpack that, but it's just like a second. You're suggesting certain exercises. It just brings up too much stuff. That, to me, is just the more appropriate for one on one or person or someone like yourself who can like really be with it to unpack it, and I'm like and just there's enough stuff to focus on. 

But I wanted to bring in the running just because running. I don't know what it is about running, but oh my gosh, does that trigger people up in certain ways, like there are just so many expectations around running and beliefs just around running itself, of like while you're supposed to run, or running is bad for your knees or whatever, and so the reason I wanted to touch on it is that one of the things in my whole self integration method that I'm teaching within my program is that the first step is this desire for difference, and we haven't like really dug into this piece that we're going to be because Kim's halfway through, not even halfway through the program yet but, it's this piece of like. 

There has to be this authentic desire there to even do a certain movement first before it's even worth doing any like inner work on it. 

Yeah, and I bring up running because I have had clients of both where it's like when we really sit back and what's the desire they're like I don't even fucking want to run. 

Wait a minute, I actually don't like running. I just thought I liked running or I was so ingrained that I thought I was supposed to do it that they're like all of a sudden it's like this weight taken off of them, but they're like, oh, like maybe my knee just hurts when I run because like my body just doesn't like it and it's the only way to get me to stop, but like it's totally fine doing all these other movements and it's just like not a problem at any other area of my life. Versus, I have had clients who love running, like genuinely love it, and really do have a deep desire to get back to it and are able to get back to it, and so, yeah, I just wanted to touch on that because I feel like I don't know what it is for you or we haven't like dug deep into that. So I'm like totally putting you on the spot. 

0:29:22 - Speaker 2
But you are, and that's okay. I'm like I'm curious. I've been wondering this myself. I'm like where do I stand on that? Right? I'm not 100% sure. Like you'd asked me six months ago, I'd be like no, I do, I love running, it's great, I love it, and I wouldn't have thought there was another activity that would give me the same. 

But the further and further away I am from having run, I'm like I'm really developing a great love for hiking and cycling and like, oh, I don't know that I need to run as much as I thought I did before. 

And I also recognize that to get back to feeling good about running, I have to do it with a certain amount of consistency. 

And I'm like I don't know that I want to be out there like two, three days a week working on running, when I like these other things too, right. So I'm not 100% sure. And I guess that speaks to like disconnecting my worth as a human to my ability to run, right. Like I no longer think like I have to run to be a good example of the fitness industry or like there's other ways to be fit and not everybody needs to be a runner. So that's there. And still I do have positive memories from running Like I, trail running and there's a great community here where I live called the trail sisters and they go out a couple of times a month and we just run around in the bush and I kind of miss being able to be part of that community because I can't keep up now with the injuries, so I'm like I'd like to be able to get back to that. That was really joyful, so I don't know. 

0:30:39 - Speaker 1
Yeah, there's things to continue to unpack Totally and it's like you don't have to know the answer now. And sometimes it takes like trying it out and like seeing what comes up and whatnot to get there. And I want to just point something out, because you're like, oh, in order to feel good running, I have to do it consistently, like two to three times per week. And I'm like, do you really true, kim? I don't know Like what, if you could do exactly what you wanted, you know, exercise wise, and then you just join these trail sisters once or twice a month, and like that would actually be possible. 

0:31:06 - Speaker 2
That would be awesome. I guess I have the belief that, in order to be able to run the distance that they're running, I have to get out there a few times a week to develop my endurance. But I suppose cross training is a thing it is. 

0:31:17 - Speaker 1
I'd have to know more information. So I mean, yeah, there's like a certain thing where it's like, yeah, I mean for certain physical goals, like yes, but to be fair, I ran a half marathon having never run more than like three miles at a time. 

Wow I did it Orange theory like twice a week. I was terrible. I was in a lot of pain during and afterwards but I didn't. I ran the entire time. Don't recommend it, but I was fine. There was no long term long term issues, but it was kind of one of those things where I was like my friend convinced me to do it for her birthday and I was like I can't do that, I can't train for it, like I don't want to. I'm just going to see what happens. Worst case, I walk. I did bump up my training, like my endurance, my cross training, but I never ran, I don't think, more than three miles. I really don't think I ever ran more than three miles. Interesting Not saying it's the best idea, but just throw it out there Possibilities, right there's you know exactly. 

You know sometimes you've got to like throw up again. Then you try it out, see how your body does, see what happens. So some amazing to. Another thing I want to bring in and I'm curious, if you see this is that I find when people have had movements that work really well, like running, for example, or weightlifting, and then they get injured and they want to go back to it, but they're at a totally different level that feels much worse than they were at that. It is such a hang up point that it makes them not want to go and do it, cause it's like they can't do what they used to be able to do. 

0:32:39 - Speaker 2
Yeah, it's easy to get caught in a comparison trap of comparing yourself not necessarily to other people, but a fitter version of you, right, and then allow that to make you feel inadequate and like, get stuck in thoughts of like oh my god, it's going to be so hard to get back to where I was, I'm going to have to put so much into that, and that's pretty defeating thoughts, right. 

0:32:57 - Speaker 1
Yeah, and it's like ironic too when you end up not doing anything and then it's like things just get more out of shape and deconditioned, and then it's like you're only going to get more out of shape or more decondition, and I even invite people to listen. It's like can you even hear those words without having them be something that means anything? Shameful. 

0:33:12 - Speaker 2
Yeah, yeah, it's just like. 

0:33:14 - Speaker 1
sometimes there is a reality of like, after I had my child and didn't work out so I could heal, I was so out of shape and like it didn't have to mean anything about me. It actually meant that I just birthed another human and allowed my body to heal and that I, like, took the time to heal. Like that's what it meant about me. It's actually supporting my body in the way that it needed. 

0:33:35 - Speaker 2
Yeah, it's being able to sort of just neutralize that word and meet yourself where you're at, like, okay, I'm out of shape, okay, I'm deconditioned and yeah, I want to feel better. So let's start where we're at with the abilities we have, like train within our limitations and see where we go. 

0:33:51 - Speaker 1
Yes, yes, I love that. So if somebody is like listening and they are feeling really out of shape, really decondition, and they have a lot of shame around it, there's never necessarily like a right place to start. It's like about what feels like the doable place to start for you. And for some people it might be like you know what, I'm not even touching movement yet, but I'm going to work in her work and thoughts and things like that. For others, I think it actually can be really helpful to find someone like yourself who is getting right in there and taking them through movement in a way in this like really safe, loving, non-judgment space and it's just like what feels right for you. So I'm curious if you work with people from that aspect where it's like they're coming in and they don't want to go to the gym because there's too much right. It's just like that's too much to manage. But you work virtually right as well. 

0:34:39 - Speaker 2
Yeah, I have one in particular who I'm working with virtually right now who has a really complicated past with exercise, if I can call out CrossFit. She was part of the CrossFit gym. It was really punitive, like they really pushed her, and competitive and she ended up leaving that gym and with a lot of like trauma, but very much wants to be stronger, very much wants to feel better, but there's a whole lack of resistance to movement. Like I worked with her for a bit a while ago and things were going along great and then she thought she could manage on her own so we stopped and she called me six months later and she's like I haven't moved at all since we stopped working together and what she realized is that, you know, she was relying on me to tell her what to do and as long as she had some tell her what to do, she could keep going, but she had no self motivation and it was like all of this stuff that was coming up. So we're training in an entirely different way now, where I never come to the session with a plan. I never know what we're going to do until we check in and I have her do like a body scan, as you do with your clients, like to feel into her body and check in with those movement cravings. 

And there's days where we lift weights and she gets on her Peloton bike and we do that, and then there's days where she rolls around the floor and stretches and there's days where we just talk some of the stuff that's coming up for her. Like we had one of those days. The other she had just come off a really busy, intense time with work and she was burnt out and she was like judging herself that she didn't feel like moving and it was okay. Like what are you making it mean about yourself that you're not feeling motivated? Like you've just had this really stressful time and you're kind of coming down. It can it be okay to rest and go easy, and it kind of wasn't okay initially. But we worked through those beliefs and she left the session feeling a lot better. But like I think it's really important that we meet ourselves where we're at and that can be with movement, that can be with intensity and like working through some emotions and throwing heavy kettle bells around. It can be like laying on the floor and meditating too right. 

It all counts, it's all good. 

0:36:31 - Speaker 1
That's so beautiful. It's so beautiful, I think. There's so much emphasis placed on like consistency. You've got to build the habit, you've got to show up. You miss one day, you know, and it's just like is that even true? Yeah, like consistency. 

0:36:44 - Speaker 2
We're just showing up for yourself. Yes, stowing up and checking in and yes willing to respond to what your body needs that day. 

0:36:52 - Speaker 1
I love that in terms of consistency, yes, but it's like, yeah, even just changing the game of what consistency looks like and that it doesn't have to be so freaking rigid. Yeah, rigid, because, like I don't know, I think that's something that I really had to like decondition for myself, and right now I'm trying to actually adjust my schedule and work out at 6am, because when I can do it, it really feels good, it works. It's really freaking hard. 

I've never really been a morning person. I always have a lot of trouble getting out of bed. Like that's something that I worked really hard to not make me having trouble getting out of bed be a problem. And so now I'm like kind of having to come back and like face that of like well, that is a little bit of a problem when it means I keep missing my workouts, but it's like so I've been doing these 6am workouts so inconsistently and I'm like I love it, like it's great, it's like actually going really well, because it's like I can see that it's slowly becoming more of a pattern. But it's like I think I just missed like two weeks in a row at 6am workout and I did one today, yay. 

0:37:47 - Speaker 2
But, like I didn't mean anything other than okay, I missed that, and then it was like it's reframing it to like oh my God, I missed two weeks. I have to start all over again, like I'm a terrible primer failure to like. Okay, I can get up at 6am tomorrow if I want to Totally Bring yourself back into choosing, as opposed to just like on yourself and berating yourself. 

0:38:08 - Speaker 1
Yes, Because on the days that I missed it there really wasn't any judgment or shame, but it was all like a the desire that I would have gone. 

So it's like it comes from this place of choice, like I really do want to do this, and so it's like even just having the time to like even feel into like a little bit of that disappointment of like, oh, dang, I missed my workout today and now I didn't go and do one at all and it's like, oh, I missed that. Like I don't feel as good the next day, and so it's like then this morning it was a little bit easier going to get to get up because I could touch into, like, oh, I was disappointing to have missed that and I don't want to feel that disappointment again, but like that feels like a good place to be in and like, oh, it feels really good to go and do these workouts. So, anyways, that's something that I'm kind of flying with my own head right now, because it's interesting this that that consistency piece is coming up of, like wait, why does it have to be so consistent? 

0:38:55 - Speaker 2
Yeah, I love how you're not allowing it to be all or nothing, right, like you're just noticing how I feel when I get up, how I feel when I don't get up, like what do I want, how do I want to feel and what do I choose to do to get closer to that feeling? Yeah, and leading up on yourself when you make the choice to stay in bed, and even if that was the wrong choice, right, it's like okay, I learned from that. What am I going to do differently tomorrow? Totally. 

0:39:18 - Speaker 1
Yes, absolutely. And so I'm curious, like for somebody who's listening. I'm just like did you have any tips or pointers of like what is the best place to get started? If they're in pain and they're like you know what, I really am craving movement, and I don't even know how to start, like what would be the best? 

0:39:33 - Speaker 2
way to start. 

I think the first place to start is to adopt the belief that movement should feel good, like you are allowed to feel good and movement can be a way to care for your body. 

Like you can engage with movement as a way to help with that pain. Right, you don't have to push through that pain. You don't have to engage in like hardcore exercise to burn fat and lose weight and whatever. Like you can just take a step back and look at, like, what is in it for me, what do I really want here? Right, and being willing to honor those limitations and make choices that are supporting and caring and loving, and just put all the rest aside. So maybe it starts by taking a full stop and tuning into your movement cravings. Maybe it starts by rejecting formal exercise. Or maybe it starts by, like, digging into some of the thoughts and beliefs that you have about exercise and about your body. Like maybe there's body image work that needs to be done before you start engaging with movement. It's hard to say what the starting point is, but I guess the thing is really tune into yourself and ask, like what is it that I really need here? 

0:40:36 - Speaker 1
Totally. And I love just like, even like you mentioning all the options, because I find, at least for myself, I'm like a generator in human design, so this is a very generator thing of. When I hear like options listed out, it's like my body gets to respond to each one of like ooh, that feels good. Ooh, but, you know, might feel scary, but it feels good. Like oh, yeah, that's the one. And then it might bring up all this other crap, but oh, yeah, I need to dig into that. Versus like no, that one's not for me. 

And so it's like even just letting your body respond to all those things that Kim said or anything that you heard in this episode of yeah, like, how is your body responding to this in itself, because that is, I think, the piece that gets lost, and really what you know I really help clients with is finding that connection back, and so often people are like, well, my body isn't talking to me, but it always is, it really always is. It's just about can we actually hear the message without shutting it right back down? Because often what's happening is you're getting a very clear answer and then your brain is automatically judging the shit out of that answer. So, like if Kim said you know digging into some of the thoughts and beliefs before you even start, or doing a full movement, your body might have been like oh, then your brain's like nobody are talking about. 

You can't stop moving because then you're going to get fat, and then blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, right, and it's like, oh, isn't that fascinating? Like, can you touch into the split second of expansion? Your body felt before? Your brain gave us lots of opinions that have no basis in reality, but brains do. 

0:41:59 - Speaker 2
Yeah, yes, our bodies always do have the answer if we're willing to be still and listen right, yeah, I teach people very similarly to you how to like, tune into their body and like, even before each workout or each movement session, asking like, how do I feel right now and how do I want to feel and what do I need? And I always teach them, like, when you say that question what do I need your body will always give you the right answer yes, If you're willing to like, let it be right, I love that question so much. 

0:42:28 - Speaker 1
I love that you asked that and even like for people who were like, but I can't hear anything. It's like just ask the question anyways and even notice that your response is I can't hear anything, right? Maybe you need a little more stillness, a little more quiet, right, exactly so maybe what your body needs is more time to connect. Yes, oh, I love that so much. 

0:42:47 - Speaker 2
So where do people find you, yes, so I'm on Instagram and Facebook, mostly at Radiant Vitality Wellness. I'm also on TikTok, but I don't really love it. I'm sure if you want to hang out, and probably the best place to connect with me is by listening to my podcast, if you're already a podcast listener. So it's the joyful movement show and it's on all the podcast platforms. 

0:43:09 - Speaker 1
Amazing Kim. This was so valuable and I'm so excited for people to listen into this. Thank you so much for being here. 

0:43:15 - Speaker 2
Thanks so much for having me. I really appreciated this conversation. 

0:43:18 - Speaker 1
I really appreciate the way Kim talks about movement and exercise, and especially her emphasis on tuning into your body to discover what you need where you are right now. Meeting yourself where you are. That is one of my absolute favorite concepts, and in case you haven't already, please make sure to click the link below Apply to be a beta tester. That way, you can get access to this amazing material completely for free, and if you know anybody who's going to benefit from that as well or you think could please send it their way as well. We want this material to get out into the world, because the more people who are able to see their gifts, feel into their personal power and liberate their success, the better the world will be. As always, thank you so so much for listening. 

So much goes into this podcast, so if it is something that has been helpful for you, I can't tell you how much I would appreciate a review on Apple. It helps others find this podcast and it helps me know that I am not just talking to myself. Alright, I love you all. Thank you so much. Bye, bye. 

Transcribed by https://podium.page