A PT's Journey Through Pain & Healing with Dr. Melissa Waud

0:00:00 - Speaker 1
Oh, melissa, i am so excited to have you on here. I have been wanting to talk to you And obviously we go way back, so this is just going to be a super fun episode, but I feel like you have something so valuable to share and I thought it'd be so much fun to talk to you. 

0:00:18 - Speaker 2
Yeah, thank you so much for having me. Yes, i'm excited to be here. Yeah, i feel like somebody. I feel like people are just listening in on one of our infamous like hour long phone calls that we have like twice a year. I know I need to have those, for all of them. 

0:00:32 - Speaker 1
But yes, i think it's going to be like really fun to recap because we feel like we have not broken down this whole incident that occurred that we will shall be talking about. Yeah Well, why don't you give people maybe a quick little background, obviously like we were to talk about your bio and all your credentials and fun stuff, but like just a little bit about you and like what's got you into the PT world and maybe a little bit about where you are now, if that's cool? 

0:00:58 - Speaker 2
So oh man, like I was one of those people who knew early that I wanted to be a PT, but I didn't have any injuries or anything, i just knew I wanted to be in the medical field. And I am going to go ahead and talk about this really cool program in my high school called health occupations, and we come from a very small town and they're trying to promote trades and stuff like that instead of like the traditional route of like everybody just goes to a four year university. So we have like good welding programs and mechanics programs and stuff like that. And for people who are interested in health care, as like a 16 year old, i started taking classes to like become a phlebotomist, just like, yeah, just like exposure and experience like into the medical field, kind of for those people who just like kind of know where they want to go. 

So, long story short, i started taking medical terminology and anatomy and like all those classes, and then I thought I wanted to be like a paramedic and then I sat in on a rotation in an emergency room and things happened in emergency rooms and people die and that happened and it was really, really traumatic And I was just like, wow, i don't think I want a job where people die. 

It was just one of those like I took it home with me and I remember thinking too, like I'm sure I'd get used to it after a period of time, but like I don't know if I want to like, i don't know if I want to become jaded to that. So I talked to my advisor, anna, at the time Anna Kleeman, she's an awesome person And she was like Hey, have you ever thought about PT? And I said, what's that? I had no idea what it was. And so she put me in a PT shadow opportunity and I just completely fell in love with it And I've been pretty much on that path since then. So that's so cool. Yeah, i didn't know I had that. That's awesome. That's funny because when I listen to your podcast too and I hear your stories, i'm like, wow, you have my friend and I like to know about her. 

So anyways, like a lot of PT, i PT's, i thought I would get into like the sports world And then I enjoyed my time at Oregon State, got my bachelor's degree, went down to San Diego to my doctorate degree in PT And we had like one guest lecture on pelvic health and CrossFit was like massive At that time. And so I remember just thinking like as a businesswoman, i'm like, oh, pelvic health, crossfit, like mom's who leak. I'm like this is a great business decision. Like I love working out, i love I was just getting into Olympic weightlifting. So I was just like, wow, i can kind of combine my passions towards like taking care of women working out And I just thought very like monetizable to like treat Crossfitters And that's kind of how I got into kind of the more niche pelvic floor PT where I'm at now. But yeah, so it's kind of been like a very I kind of feel like I've been on the path the whole time, so, which I think is not common for most people. 

0:03:57 - Speaker 1
No, I was definitely not on the path. I can't stay out there. 

0:04:03 - Speaker 2
I had my bumps in the road further down after I was already on the path. No, that's not cool, that's kind of I got there. 

0:04:12 - Speaker 1
That's awesome. Obviously, we could talk about so many different things, but I did want to focus on one of the questions or comments I get a lot, or just things I see as people. So obviously I talk everyone on the podcast knows this like really about this mind, body, perspective of healing and when people are dealing with pain And I think a lot of people get stuck on this place of like, okay, but what if I've had an injury? 

I'm not sure if the injury isn't completely healed yet or like you know and they're like how is this mind, body piece going to be helpful? And I just kept thinking back to this incident that you had, which we will share in a second here. It was a very acute, very acute injury and a very acute medical situation and I feel like, looking back on that, we both were able to use what we know about pain, what we know about the body, what we know about healing, and obviously I want you to share like I'll share it more from like the acute perspective, but then you can share more from like then your actual healing process. That, like this stuff applies even in the case of an acute injury And that it's not an either, or that is the piece I really want to touch on. So if you don't mind sharing what this incident was and what happened, we can kind of take it from there. 

0:05:28 - Speaker 2
So I was training and doing like local competitions in Olympic style weightlifting. So for those who don't know, that's like the snatch and the clean and jerk are two different lifts that we do. They're also done in CrossFit And it was actually a really big weekend for me Because I just put up the biggest numbers I'd ever lifted. I did I just looked up the post on Instagram I snatched 70 kilos and I did a clean and jerk of 90 kilos in the same day. I don't think it was a PR for me, but like it was for a competition. So it was a huge day for me. I was feeling kind of like just my personal life and like my other, like we. The pandemic had literally just started, so everything was kind of on fire And so I was just like lifting and like physically I felt so strong and so good, and so that was on a Sunday and I qualified for fair competition. 

And then the following day We were just going to have a squat day, like me and my partner at the time training partner as well, and we were going to have just like a heavy squat day. So we're in the gym or in the garage and we're lifting and I there's a miscommunication which we could dive into like that Quite a bit. It was a very unsafe way of the way I was spotting this person And so they were squatting and it was a fairly heavy weight I think it was like 430 pounds And they kind of communicated to me like okay, like I need you on this, like come spot me. And I was like okay. So I was there and I spotted the way that I always would spot a person who was like smaller than me or less strong than me For those who don't know, i cannot squat 430 pounds. So they were squatting, they were failing, and I grabbed the bar and laughed it. I kind of like pulled it to my lap, which is the common way that I would spot somebody who is failing a squat, who lifts less than me. 

I caught this bar on the way down to the ground. The bar was on the way down to the ground. I caught it and sat it on my thighs, so I was in like a partial squat and it was balanced on my thighs. I was completely stuck And I fell backwards. I started sliding down my thigh And I was like oh, this is very bad. And then I fell backwards and rolled the bar off of me. 

And I remember thinking I looked at my thigh and I said to myself your thigh is never going to look the same again. I knew immediately like I looked at my leg and I thought whatever just happened is permanent. So I am trained as a PT, i have my doctorate degree And I also, just like you know, i have an extensive background in healing and injury, and so I remember thinking my leg either broken or it's not. Yeah, so I was. And I just like thought, okay, i'm going to move my leg and it's either going to stay together or not. And so I straightened out my leg and like nothing bad happened. And then I bent it a little bit and nothing bad happened. And I remember just like thinking in my head like, okay, i don't think my femur is broken. And then I just very calmly kind of slipped into like okay, is anything bleeding out? Is like, is the scene safe? 

0:08:56 - Speaker 1
Like I kind of did like a first aid, CPR. 

0:08:58 - Speaker 2
Like is the scene safe. Like can I get any further injured? Like is everything good. So I don't know if you want me to just like stop there. I want to like pause and just to be like, because I feel like the way you said it for those notes. 

0:09:12 - Speaker 1
all good. I know I could tell the way you said it. for people who aren't familiar with weightlifting I feel like you downplayed what happened. Think that for those familiar they will understand. but like I'm just going to be like for reference in case I didn't miss it, basically Melissa Cotabar that was coming down with gravity. 

I didn't catch it, she caught it with her thigh Like 430 pounds of and you said your thighs, but it was really one for one Left thigh, so it was like basically 430 pounds of a barbell crashing down on one of her legs in midair. It's a lot of fucking weight, yes, and that's a really heavy impact and a very like a cute impact and a very like right like a barbell, it's like right like it's round and small, so it's like a very small surface area of like a lot of weight compressing on one small spot, so like it was a big, freaking deal. 

Absolutely could have Sorry to be like a really grotesque of like literally could have shattered someone's theme or like easily. Well, so I was lucky that she has clearly weight lifts a shit ton and has sanely strong bones, as we now know. 

0:10:27 - Speaker 2
Yeah, not like yeah, drink a lot of milk growing up, exactly. But also, yeah, just knowing the physiology or like the like. yeah, biomechanics to like it, hit relatively low on my femur, like it was like about one third up my femur. So I think if it hit more in the center of my femur I think it would have broken Probably. 

0:10:51 - Speaker 1
I just wanted to like be like really massive, massive, massive blow to her leg. 

0:11:01 - Speaker 2
And then I I knew that, like I as it happened, like I knew it was a big deal, but yeah, I think I'm just. I just immediately went into like crisis, Like yeah, how can we? and it's funny because my counselor would say that my therapist would say that my catastrophic thinking is not healthy. And you know, I'm always thinking like if that candle tips over, it's going to catch the table on fire and that could catch my house on fire. and then, like I participate in like very negative thinking patterns all the time And that around it now, but in the moment I was kind of like Oh, wow, like my catastrophic thinking actually came into very totally like what's the worst that can happen here. 

0:11:40 - Speaker 1
So yeah, no, i mean, I think there are and this is actually I would even like highlight that of. I think we all tend to hate on these like patterns that we have right, like including a catastrophic thinking pattern, or like negative mindset, or like, oh, go, in a worst case scenario, and it's like this goes to show that it's not about a pattern itself. It's like a pattern in the wrong place at the wrong time. Like that is a great pattern in the right place and it is at the right time. Like that's exactly when you should have that type of thinking, because if you're not going there and you're like, oh, everything's great. 

And you're like, really is broken, like that's really problematic, like you Like that is the time where you should be having that type of response. The problem is we have those response, like you said, like while you're just sitting there in a perfectly safe environment with a candle going. But like again, for everybody who's like, oh, why do I think this way or this pattern so bad? it's like no, it's not that the pattern is bad, it's or anything's wrong with it, it's just misplaced. So yay for your catastrophic thinking patterns and let's love on it and have so much compassion for them, because they serve you so well in this scenario. 

So, yes, go on. Okay, so you kind of have like medically cleared the scene at this point, yeah. So I'm like okay, no more barbells can fall on you. 

0:12:53 - Speaker 2
I'm like nothing else is falling, like, okay, everything you know, the danger is over as far as like further injury. And then you immediately like assess the situation, like okay, what could it possibly be? So in my head I'm like I need to put weight on it to see if it's fractured, looking back on it like I can't go back. So I'll just say what I did. I got up and I walked on it. Yeah, i think I was just kind of like well, i'm just going to see how it is. And so I sit up and I like definitely felt funny, but I could walk on it. 

And I immediately thought into my training with after you have an injury, the last thing you want to do is just like completely stop moving. You want to like don't let it freeze up. So I was aware that I needed to get to my some level of breast ice compression elevation, like it was at this point. It's like an acute traumatic injury, like I'm aware of that. So, of course, me being the high functioning person that I am. So I was like okay, we probably have a little bit until this starts to hurt. So I'm like I need to get in and make myself dinner and take a shower and like just get clean. 

And I was also thinking, if I end up wanting to go to the emergency room, i don't want to be wearing these sweaty clothes that I'm wearing. 

0:14:08 - Speaker 1
Really Yeah, oh my gosh. 

0:14:10 - Speaker 2
Isn't that, oh man? 

0:14:13 - Speaker 1
So I want to highlight that right there of like, right, like. Where would a guy ever freaking think that? 

0:14:19 - Speaker 2
Probably not. We'll just leave it at that, and so then I will also share that this was during a pandemic. It was during May of 2020. So it was super chaos time, like you did not go to the doctor, you did not go to the emergency room. In another month, in another year, i might have had my partner drive me to the emergency room And I think that if that happens to you, everyone listening go to the emergency room. 

But at the time I was just thinking like they're not going to see me, they're going to turn me away. So I'm like in the shower, like washing my hair, like thinking about you know what I should do, as I can feel my kneecap progressively getting heavier. So I like got out of the shower and I'm like, nope, they're just going to turn me down, they're going to send me home. So like at this point, the pain and the swelling is like my immediate kind of adrenaline response is gone. And so now like I'm starting to feel, and so I was like okay. So I sat down and I said I think I even literally wrote a list. I said you're pretty sure your femur isn't broken, you can move it, you can walk on it, like it's not broken. So the bones are okay. 

The next thing I thought of was like a muscle tear, like a quadrupture tear, and I was like that's very, very possible, but like at this point, like they wouldn't do surgery on me right away. I can extend and bend and I can move my leg well enough, like it's not an emergency surgery. So then I was thinking. The next one I thought of was like acute compartment syndrome, which probably most of your listeners aren't going to think about. But I was like literally walking through like the kind of the emergency types of things I might have, and so I was like some of these I would be dead already. Like if I had hit my, like, femoral artery, i'd like already be dead. 

And it was this. I'm like I'm like thinking, do the worst. And I'm like I think I'm okay to stay home. If I go to the emergency room, i'm just going to sit with my feet down and like all the swelling is going to go to my leg and I might get COVID. And at that time we really thought you were just going to get COVID and die. So I was just like, well, i think this is just my. And so I called Andrea and I was like this is what I'm thinking. Andrea, my coworker, i'm like don't forget, i'm okay, but I hurt myself. And could you come over to my house and like help me figure out whether I'm thinking clearly about this or if I'm just stupid and I should just go to the emergency room? 

0:16:44 - Speaker 1
I feel like I remember, I feel like, did you call me or did you text me? I remember it as like a text originally. 

0:16:48 - Speaker 2
I can't even whatever it doesn't matter, Like whether it was a text or a call. 

0:16:52 - Speaker 1
I remember getting that and like that's not. I mean, obviously we're friends, but like for you to call me and be like can you come over, was not a usual thing. So I feel like I was like halfway in my car already because I was like what the fuck just happened to you. I'm a pretty independent person and I don't really I remember like I'm just telling Adam I'm like bye, like take care of Remy, i'm going. he's like what's happening? I'm like I don't know. 

0:17:15 - Speaker 2
But yeah, I'll point, my thigh was like rapidly swelling, I think it was just. I have pictures and like I was just like and I like, I like, I like pictures if anyone wants to see it. 

0:17:27 - Speaker 1
So I can figure out how to do that on the podcast. If anybody really liked seeing really cool pictures of medical things, definitely worth taking a look at these Sorry. 

0:17:39 - Speaker 2
Yeah, maybe a trigger one. So I remember like after I knew Andrea was coming, I was like, okay, I or maybe even before I texted you, I Googled quad contusion recovery protocols, non-surgical recovery protocols And thank God for the military I found a study on quad contusions in active military people, And so I found a protocol And so I just literally downloaded it on my phone and I started following phase one, Started doing heel, side, heel slides, quad sets, ice elevation, ankle pumps. You know, just started on the protocol. 

0:18:24 - Speaker 1
Good stuff Yeah. 

0:18:26 - Speaker 2
That's amazing. I should like cite that study. I could like, by the way. Thank you to so and so for guiding me. 

0:18:33 - Speaker 1
It is. It's a great. It's a great protocol. I feel like that's exactly what I use for people and rare scenarios where I see someone with an acute injury but like, yeah, for swelling like absolutely, and I told you to bring kinesiotape, bring kinesiotape, yes. 

So, yeah, okay, but so I want to like back up and be like what I think one. I want to obviously acknowledge the difference of your ability to look at it, because you have medical training, like you have your doctor and physical therapy. I want to just like, emphasize, like the point of this podcast is not to be like oh, this is what everyone should be able to do, because you're not going to be able to access this sort of information when you're in a crisis if you haven't already been trained in it. And I think what so often happens is because we don't have, like somebody might not have that training is they're jumping to the worst case scenario, the catastrophic thinking, and then they're staying stuck there. 

Right, it's then like, oh my gosh, my leg might be broken, like what does this mean for my future? And what that actually does is prevents being able to support the healing, being able to do what you were doing of like let's get this protocol started that is going to help the healing process, that is going to help the swelling, that is going to help deal with the scenario, because it is going to require a lot of healing from it When we're able to like, have that ability to kind of take that pause and that step back and breathe and come out of the catastrophic thinking. We can actually take a line to action, and this is what I like speak to all the time is like taking this action that's aligned. So, again, not that anybody should be able to do that without this level of training, but but just to speak to how important it is, even in the case of something like this, to be able to like have that pause, to be able to like breathe and be like okay, what needs to happen? 

0:20:25 - Speaker 2
Yeah, that reminds me of is sometimes, when you get overwhelmed, you just have to pick like the next right. 

0:20:31 - Speaker 1
Yeah. 

0:20:32 - Speaker 2
Yeah, and so I think that's totally what I thought myself doing. I mean, like in the back of my head I was just kind of like you know, i just lifted my best lifts ever yesterday like I had aspirations to go on to Do a qualified for a meet that day, like I was really excited to go, and that was like two months from then. So I knew that that was out Yeah. 

And like for those who don't know, with weightlifting, like you grind for years, sometimes months, sometimes Decades, you know, and that's not my, my experience, but like decades to like get to a certain point where you can compete. 

So for a small injury like that Not a small injury, sorry, i'm downplaying it again, it was a massive- And so I knew I knew that all my progress was kind of like for nothing, and so, like, emotionally, i was like super, super, not doing well. I was not in a good place spiritually or emotionally at the time, and so my physical body was something that was so important to me. I was using, like I was working in the healthcare field. I was going through a separation. I was like I mean, you name it like the world was on fire. 

We were all in rough shape in May of 2020, and so to lose my body, like the ability to like just Exercise and even go for a walk, go for a hike, walk my dogs, like you know, i was, so I was definitely Feeling all that as well. But, yeah, i just kept thinking like what's the next? what's the next thing? like, okay, i am not probably dying, i'm not a good friend, i'm going to Download a protocol, i'm going to, and so I just kind of like that's, that's totally what I think. What kept me From spiraling was I was just like what is the next right step? 

0:22:20 - Speaker 1
Yeah, i love that and I and I love that you just brought up all the other stuff that was going on, because it's like it. I don't want to downplay any of that because I think it comes into so much importance, right, because I think often, at least I know for me, when I go into like spiraling or crisis and like not from, not a healthy place, what happens for me And I think a lot of my clients can speak to this too is we start like Catastrophies, like everything. It's like, oh my gosh, you know I'm not in a good place in this, this and this, and now I've lost my body on top of this, and And one obviously at your head was going there. 

0:22:52 - Speaker 2
I don't want to be like oh yeah, we're perfectly able to like keep your thoughts all together. 

0:22:56 - Speaker 1
That was not the case. 

0:22:57 - Speaker 2
I mean I was laying on, i was laying on the couch and I think by the time you got there, i think I started crying by then. Yeah, I think there's definitely tears and I don't think I was necessarily crying Because of my quad pain and my yeah, I didn't tree. I think it was like all the things I felt like I was losing in that moment so, because that's huge, huge and. 

0:23:24 - Speaker 1
The truth is is like we cannot attend to it all at once, and I think often, like When something like that happens, it's like I guess this is you can speak to this, but it's like. This is where my mind. It's like now I have to fix everything, and like it's like now Everything becomes so urgent to fix and it's like it's impossible. It's impossible to fix it all, and I love that you keep coming back to like the next right thing, which then just reminds me of the frozen song which is fantastic. 

I don't know if you know that you know the frozen song. No, you don't have children. 

0:23:57 - Speaker 2
You mean like let it go. 

0:23:58 - Speaker 1
I can know there's a song in Frozen 2, that is literally called the next right thing. What? 

0:24:05 - Speaker 2
and it's amazing and I've seen the movie. 

0:24:08 - Speaker 1
It's like after, like she thinks Elsa dies and because she's frozen and she's like in the cave by herself. 

0:24:15 - Speaker 2
Oh, you mean that like massive analogy for depression? that was in frozen 2. Oh yeah, i bawled my eyes out in the theater. It's that I must have. 

0:24:22 - Speaker 1
I was like I'm gonna start crying just now thinking about it. It's like, yeah, but anyways, but yes, like, it's like, that's, i think. What's like when you're in that state. It's like coming to like, how can you like come back to your body and come back to this place of like? okay, i can just take the next step and I have to attend to like what is in front of me right now, which, in that case, was a massive fucking injury. 

0:24:46 - Speaker 2
Okay, now I'm gonna throw something back on you. Yeah, what if? what if my injury hadn't been so severe? What if I had just like Spray into my ankle, like a, like a moderate ankle sprain, or what if I had? what if I had gotten a concussion, like in it or like an invisible injury? 

That maybe people didn't like. People looked at my thigh like when I watch yeah, she's door I couldn't wear pants. My thigh was so big I literally couldn't wear pants. I had to wear shorts, and so I'd go into the grocery store on crutches and people would see my blackened and purple leg. 

0:25:21 - Speaker 1
I feel like we haven't talked about and we're just like, we're just like I'm so. 

0:25:24 - Speaker 2
Like what happened to you? like, are you okay, can I help you? like you know, i had all these people kind of like offering help because they could see how bad my leg was injured, and so In some ways, that's kind of a blessing. Like I had this massive cool story dude, you survived, like posted pictures of my nasty thigh on Instagram. 

Like you know, if it had just been like an ankle sprain Just I don't want to play that down, but it had been something that maybe had a shorter healing process, mm-hmm, i might have been like, well, my ankle hurts, but like I'm, i'm super depressed and like the world's on fire. 

So I'm just gonna keep running anyway, you know, which is maybe not the best thing for healing at that point. Or if it was maybe Another invisible injury, i think, keep thinking of concussion, you know then I might think like no one can see it. So I just need to keep. I need to keep going to work, i need to keep on doing the laundry and making my soul food and I just need to like keep taking care of myself, you know. So if it had been kind of a different kind of injury, i feel like I wouldn't have gotten as much help and I maybe wouldn't have like taken it so seriously, and So I just want to like take a minute to like acknowledge that, because I think that you know, if anybody else in my situation had had like a different kind of injury, they might not have like slowed down so much and like downloaded a protocol and yeah, i must feel like the severity of my injury kind of like made me. 

0:26:47 - Speaker 1
I Love that you brought this up because, as someone with a concussion that no one can see Hi, yeah, like I Relate so much of just it was really hard to slow down because Nobody could see it. I think that is so common that it's like these injuries that are like either. 

Yeah either they might be really severe in pain but it's like, oh, they can't find anything right. Like you have like a bad enough Bass bass move. How many people have we seen right in the clinic where it's like you could tell they were Down and out for days at a time because of their back freaking out? But it's like once things are kind of quote-unquote better and like good enough that they can walk around, no one can see that and no one can see where, like it then catches them Unexpectedly right and it doesn't, might not show up on an image You might not. Again, no one from the outside can see it. 

So I think it does that people. Then it's so much harder to take the time to slow down. So thank you for acknowledging that because it's huge. I often think it's with chronic pain, especially often is from a place of, especially if there was an injury in the past, right, it's like the injury never got to. I didn't want to say fully healed, because I do think from like a tissue standpoint It is fully healed, but it's like the Emotional wounds and the other trauma and just the like the full healing never gets to happen because there was no slowing down and slowing down was very like I'm gonna slow down just enough, just enough to let the tissues heal, but like nothing else gets to heal, whereas you literally were forced. 

0:28:13 - Speaker 2
I think I stated when you are completely incapacitated. 

0:28:16 - Speaker 1
Yes, we will post pictures, but it's like by the time I got there, melissa's leg was already turning all sorts of colors the skin. 

0:28:23 - Speaker 2
I think the thing that was the most painful is like my leg was swelling so fast that like the skin was stretching Yeah, you know, and like that's. I think that's actually I have. Actually I don't fit all these. Now I have stretch marks, oh, really on my left leg only, like all along my inner thigh, and like I was like, oh, like, i guess once you turn 30 you get stretch marks, and I was like kind of checking my like Oh, wow, you know, and I was like why is it only on one of my legs? 

0:28:53 - Speaker 1
Oh so yeah yeah, Melissa had two knees by the time I got there. I remember being like which. 

0:29:00 - Speaker 2
Yeah, and. 

0:29:01 - Speaker 1
I look like she had two knees, but one was, you know, three times as big as it should have been. Yeah, i mean okay. So I feel like we were. We kind of go all over the place, which is great, yeah, like so. Yes, you were like literally kind of forced to stop and attend to your body. It's like you had no choice because you couldn't walk on it anymore. Like your ability to walk was lost after a couple hours of swelling, because that's well, and get so bad at your shuts down your muscle, like you really cannot walk And you can't. You couldn't have been up for more than I don't know How long could you be up for at a time before you had to like, let the swelling come back down. I feel like you had to keep. 

0:29:40 - Speaker 2
I would just notice that, well, first of all I kept saying I was like, okay, my pain wasn't that bad. But then, literally the next day I tried to walk across the living room and I told the person who was with me. I said I think I'm gonna throw up. And so they ran to get me a bucket and then they heard me clatter to the floor, they heard my crutches and me hit the floor Like I passed out. So obviously I was in like a certain amount of pain. but yeah, i would say I could be up for like I love how you're like how many is there? 

0:30:11 - Speaker 1
Also, when I was texting with Melissa about doing this episode, she was like yeah, i didn't have any pain that night And I was like are you serious? I was like yes, you did Like. 

Melissa at one point went while I was over there, like if we were just like making the decision of, like, do we need to go to the emergency room or not, she went to the bathroom on like luckily we had crutches, which was again another just complete blessing that you had access to crutches. like in this moment, i think you like slipped or tripped on something. 

0:30:39 - Speaker 2
I can't remember The crutches were too big. I think they were my brothers. Who's like six, six? 

0:30:44 - Speaker 1
Yeah, and like I mean, yeah, i think you almost passed out then. but yes, I mean, i think like laying there you were, the pain was totally tolerable, but I feel like any movement was really painful. 

0:31:00 - Speaker 2
So I am a pelvic floor physical therapist and one of my favorite things to treat is pain like pelvic pain, pain with sex, like that kind of thing. So I just made a little bit of a connection for myself, which is kind of cool. I think what kept me from spiraling and being in pain is because, at the end of the day, I am a student of medicine and it was fascinating, Like I was legitimately. I had a very curious mind about what was going on with my body, And so I was just kind of like, of course I was. I was so devastated I kind of cuss on this podcast I was fucking devastated. 

0:31:39 - Speaker 1
I've listened to your podcast. I mean. 

0:31:41 - Speaker 2
I was fucking devastated. I was just like I have body image issues, as a lot of people do. I mean I was spiraling. I make it sound like I'm just tough and I was fine. But I was like, oh, now I'm gonna get fat, now I'm gonna like lose my worthiness. Now I'm gonna like not be able to do my job, so like I'm not gonna be able to like like myself worth was just like if I can't walk and run, like what is my worth? Like I, you know, i just oh, man, i could spiral there for a second. 

But I think what kept me going is I was legitimately curious. I mean I'm like reading protocols, i'm like, okay, do I have full knee range of motion? Like can I touch my heel to my butt? Can I do a quad set? Can I do a short arc quad, a long arc quad? Like I was testing myself, and so I was having that curious mind And I think a lot of that is kind of what kept me grounded or kept me from just they say the definition of suffering. Maybe we should fact check this, but like the definition of suffering is like not understanding what you're going through. 

0:32:48 - Speaker 1
Ooh, I feel like I haven't heard that way. I love that. 

0:32:51 - Speaker 2
I don't even remember where I'm remembering this. But like the definition of suffering is like you don't know why you're in pain And so to speak to that. I knew exactly what was going on. I knew my thigh was swelling because I had a blunt force trauma. I knew my skin was stretching and like that's why it felt like my leg was gonna explode. I knew, like I knew those things And so I think, being curious and like kind of following the protocol and like each day when I woke up, i would be like is my knee gonna give out when I walk today Or is it going to? like what's that called when you have swelling or underneath cap and you like lose proprioception of like whether your knee is straight or not? 

0:33:30 - Speaker 1
I don't remember if that was a name or not, but like I was like literally thinking through all of that. 

0:33:34 - Speaker 2
So, like my intellect, in this exact place, was totally lending to me. I was able to just be curious and like, kind of like. And so when I treat pelvic pain and I'm working with people who've had trauma of any kind, like mental, physical, any whatever, and so I'm gonna specifically talk about pain with sex for a second. If that's a trigger, if that's a trigger for anyone, you know, just tune out for a minute or so. When I am trying to teach someone how to tolerate touch again, and I give them touch and they say that hurts And I say can I continue? And they say yes, otherwise I stop. And then I'll say what does this feel like? And when they just say pain, i'll say can you try to describe it more? And so then they might say, oh, it feels like it's burning, or it feels like a lot of pressure, or it feels like. And as they start to describe it, they actually will tell me that they feel less pain. I'll say is your pain getting better? Worse, they're staying the same. And they'll say, actually, it's getting better. 

And so I just made that connection. And so I will tell my clients, like when you're trying to initiate, like sex with your partner again, this would be a person who would be receiving penetrative sex. You know and you trust the person and you can move slowly and all that and communicate very well. And I said, if it feels safe to you, try to have a curious mind about how it feels And if your body's telling you no, then stop. Like always listen to, like your body is allowed to tell you whatever it wants. And like the more you listen to it, the better it will communicate with you. So yeah, i just kind of made that connection of like I teach my clients to come at their pain with a very curious mind And that's I think that's totally what I was with my quad injury is. I was just like, oh, what's it gonna be today? 

0:35:21 - Speaker 1
Oh, I love that so freaking much because, yeah, that's like so much Sorry just rabbit trailed. 

0:35:27 - Speaker 2
so far That was fantastic. 

0:35:29 - Speaker 1
No, it was a perfect rabbit trail Cause like it's literally what my work is about is how do you have a curious mind? Because it's really hard to have a curious mind when you're spiraling right, like it's like they're kind of incompatible with each other. So it's like how to pull out of the spiral and move to curiosity, cause I think you spoke about it so well It's like it is a lot easier to have a curious mind when you know exactly what is causing your pain And like I feel like you can see this over and over with people you know in the clinic and people I've worked with. It's like when they know what's causing the pain, it is much easier to approach it with curiosity. However, when it's like mind, body pain and there has been no injury for like many of the people listening on here, or their pain levels don't match up they get stuck into like why, why, why, why is my pain happening? And I think when you can come to the place of like what if my pain was my body trying to send a message? What if my pain you know really was? and like really, just play with that, you can then get curious about it and then allow you to talk to your pain and be like, huh, okay, if my pain really was from emotions that haven't been processed, like, oh, what could? what could be underlying that? 

When you don't have an injury or a clear injury, i think it's again. It's harder to have that level of communication, but the somatic work I teach allows that, because it's what you're doing right. It's like describing the pain. It's bringing it into this, like it's almost personifying it So you can have a conversation with it, because it's very hard to have a conversation when something is like taking over you. I always use the example of like there was a sumo wrestler on top of you, lying on top of you. You cannot have a conversation with them. It's like you need to be like step back, let me see you and like let's talk. 

0:37:16 - Speaker 2
And I think that's why it's so helpful and important to find a doctor who gets you, or even like a provider like you, or a counselor, or having a doctor who's going to explain what's going on with you and help you develop that curious mind, instead of just saying like, oh yeah, well, you dropped a barbell on your thigh Like that, of course you're in pain. 

Like someone easily could have told me that in the emergency room, and I don't think that would have been helpful, like if a doctor said to you oh, what's your feeling is you're feeling your thighs swell and you're feeling your skin stretch, and so like that's why you're feeling the pain, and so I think that that's how we need to be better in the medical field is just and of course we don't have enough time to always do that, but I do. As a PT, i just got a new job in October and I get at least 45 minutes with every client, so that's good And that helps me, you know, explain to people like what they're feeling. And so I used to feel like diagnoses like fibromyalgia or you know things like that, where you get the diagnosis and then there really is no treatment for that. It's just like, oh, here's a label. 

I used to kind of fight that and be like, ah, like don't tell my clients they have fibro, like I just I didn't feel like, because then they're gonna join a Facebook support group for fibro and those places can be so fricking depressing. But I think that for some people, that suffering aspect, when they are truly suffering and then they are given a diagnosis like fibro, like endometriosis, like something like that, and it's like, even though that diagnosis doesn't necessarily link to like, oh now, here is your gold standard treatment Here you go it can still, I think, help with the suffering aspect, because you're like, oh, that's why I've been in pain, Like that's why I'm hurting, Like that you know. 

So there's so pain is so complex. I'm so glad that you do what you do, because I like, even with my training, I, you know, I still struggle to like help people with their pain because it's so multifaceted. 

0:39:28 - Speaker 1
Yes, yes, and I think even just understanding that piece, that it's not a super simple, like one for one thing of like oh, i suffered this trauma and therefore have this pain, and I clear up, this trauma and pain is like it just doesn't work that way. Like you hear stories and it can for some, but for the most part at least the people I see it doesn't work that way. It didn't work that way for me. I just I just want to come back to the curious mind piece, when you can have a curious mind and that can take time to get to, depending on where you are. 

0:39:57 - Speaker 2
Well, i just like how can we make the medical system have I oh, that's what I was thinking. Like, i just want to like how can we, like I want to help your clients, who you're working with and who are listening who may be listening, but at the same time and like this is just kind of a call to like to like providers too Like how can we help our clients develop a more curious mind around their conditions? 

0:40:22 - Speaker 1
Totally, And that was what I was going to speak to, which now I'm going to like not even answer that question of. I also used to be super against the like diagnosis and labels and whatnot that it felt like they were not helpful. 

0:40:31 - Speaker 2
We've talked about that. Yeah, you know, talked about that. 

0:40:33 - Speaker 1
But the more yeah, the more I like, yeah, understand stuff and and realize it's not the diagnosis or the label that's the issue, It's what people do with it, right? Or it's like, then, the information that is provided about it, and so, yes, if there's a label of fibro given and it's like, oh, and there's nothing you can do, all you can do is take meds, and like, yes, then people go down the rabbit hole of unhelpful support, then it is, then it's, then it's really not helpful. But if it's like, oh, now, with this, i can understand that it is like a hypersensitivity of the nervous system And this is what's going on, and you know, this is what's happening at my nerve endings And no wonder I have pain. then all of a sudden it opens up the curiosity. It's just that, yes, then it speaks to your point of like how do we have more avenues of opening up the curiosity? Cause I think that is what is not conducive in our medical system at all. 

And right now I really only think yes to a call to practitioners and for anybody listening right now of like I don't think there is going to be a massive change. I think there is change. I think there's massive change that is happening and it is slow. And while it is not fair that people have to advocate so hard for themselves and work so hard to find good care, like it's not fair, but it is the reality, and so it's like if you do not have a team that's supportive, if your doctor hasn't helped, like if your doctor, if you feel like your curiosity is being shut down, if you feel like you're stuck in a place of hopelessness, it is up to you to advocate, to find a team that works for you, to find somebody that speaks to you, And it is up to you Because the medical system is not it's not designed to help you. 

0:42:15 - Speaker 2
No, they're. Trust me, i'm one of them. There's a lot of great doctors and providers out there who they got into this to help people. They didn't get into this to make money, like I think. I don't think your healthcare providers make as much money as you think they do. 

0:42:29 - Speaker 1
Yeah, yes. 

0:42:31 - Speaker 2
And also like we got into it to help people And so. But unfortunately the system, we lose a lot of people in the system, And so if I could say to anybody like, just don't stop looking for your doctor. 

Don't stop looking for your person who's gonna help you. They're gonna be out there. I mean, like I just listened to a really awesome podcast episode on endometriosis. They said that like it takes like on average, like eight to 12 doctors different specialists or different doctors before you finally get a diagnosis of endometriosis. And it's like I'm sorry that's the truth, but like knowing that you're only on your fourth doctor, keep going. Like I'm sorry that it sucks, but keep going. Like keep looking for your doctor who's gonna help you. Like do not give up. Like to speak to two of those diagnoses, like just because you receive that diagnosis and there's no treatment for it. This year we are only going forward. We are only learning more, so just don't give up. 

0:43:33 - Speaker 1
Oh my gosh, yes, don't give up. 

Yeah, and honestly, actually, the more I've worked with chronic pain, the more I do think I used to feel like man. 

If only we could get to people earlier, which I do think there is, like there is truth of getting to certain people earlier. And I also think, when it comes to like obviously the place where I speak from like the more mind-body perspective I find when people are still like earlier on, or maybe they've only been to one PT or you know what I mean It's like going down this route that I do. It's really hard bringing up emotional trauma and working through discomfort in our nervous system and working deep from that. It's not easy quick fix work at all. And I almost think there is something where, when you have kind of exhausted all your options and now you're like, okay, yes, like every medical practitioner, like in the case of somebody who does not have a clear medical diet, like it's not endometriosis, it's not some clear diagnosis, i think sometimes it takes going through so many providers and being at the point where you're like all right, like my only choice is to kind of surrender and go down this. 

Because I think if you're trying to go down this type of approach and you still have this like but I feel like something's being missed, I feel like there is an actual injury And it's like you're almost not convinced of that yet, Then your mind's always you can't really fully go all in, And I think that's fine. I work with a lot of people who, like aren't all in yet. I don't think you have to like 100% believe, but I think there is something to almost tapping out on a medical system that makes this work even more potent, because you're like when it gets really hard, when it because it will, you're like all right, but I know this is my path. 

0:45:14 - Speaker 2
I was like I've gone through that, like I think I kind of know, actually, like the reason why I was having gut issues now, but I was like not, i didn't have a period for like two years after I got first control And I like went to see doctors and I like did all the things and they were like, oh, just, you know you're probably not ovulating. Tell us when you're ovulating, or if you, when you want to have children, tell us and we'll give you pills and make you ovulate. I'm like, but like right now, like I am here and I'm willing and I'm asking you, like how can I be healthier to support like my reproductive health and my gut health, and like all this, and like, like I went with an open mind and heart and said, hey, if you tell me to like eat carrots and like do handstands for a year, like I'm, like I was so like just give me it, like tell me the thing I need to do and I'll do it. And patients come to me all the time and say that And I'm like, well, we don't know what's going to help you. But yeah, and they just said, well, when you're ready to ovulate, come back and tell us. 

And then I ended up talking to. I have a shaman, i have a breath work therapist, i have a meditation guide, i have worked with nutritional therapist like you know and like I will speak to really quickly too the privilege of me being able to do that Like the fact that I have like the finances and the time and whatever to like do all that. But I finally got to this place where I was just like I'm in the medical field and it's failing me, like I needed to look deeper and the work that I've been doing, that's non-traditional, is just so helpful. You don't have to throw one thing out Like you can do it all, like we can do it all, oh my gosh. 

0:46:51 - Speaker 1
Yes, to like the whole. Do it all. Like I feel like I can't stand to like pit it against each other because it's like no, it's like it's both. And also I like wish I remember your words, like years ago, of Melissa was the most unwoo-woo person ever. It was like so anti-woo. 

0:47:10 - Speaker 2
And then she has a fucking shum and I was like I'm so proud, so proud, oh my gosh, i was so anti-woo And it was just like I think the school that I went to was like super, super, like research driven And like if you don't follow research, like to a T when you're a PT, then you know you're wasting people's time. And I just was like, oh, i don't want to waste people time, like I am a good girl and I am an A student and I am a, i'm gonna do what my school tells me to do. And then the longer I'm in medicine, the more I'm like oh, turns out, meditation is really hard to do and also very helpful. 

0:47:48 - Speaker 1
And also fully supported by research. Can I add That is the part that kills me is like anyways The amount of research to support it, and then the amount of doctors are like that's bullshit. I'm like sorry but no but doctors will be like it's not research-supported, that's a woo-woo bullshit And I'm like, no, it's literally not. 

0:48:06 - Speaker 2
But sorry, it's crazy but no, you're so bright though Cause they're both exist where it's like you know, we will like and maybe it's just insurance companies. Maybe I'll just take one second to say, like do insurance companies not read research? Because I will like go take a class that teaches me how to teach my patients how to meditate. And then I will like go into the clinic and I will be like, okay, i just taught this patient how to like embody a little bit safely today and how to like meditate safely for three minutes today. And like this was the most productive session we have had in two months of working with this person. 

And like I had a patient who was having pain with orgasm. She had had a hysterectomy. Pain with orgasm, very clear, like that makes sense. This happened, this is happening now. And I treated the scar tissue, we did strengthening, we did all the things. 

And then I tend to be an intuitive or empathic type of person And this day I'm just like let's just settle into your body for a second And like let's just talk about like what, what you're feeling about your hysterectomy and, long story short, some stuff came up around like am I still a woman? Like I'm young, i didn't want this, yet Some stuff like that. When she was having sex, she was like thinking about her scar tissue and like wondering if it was gonna hurt. And then like all of this, and so I walked her through a meditation. That was just like what does it feel like when your partner touches your skin? What does it feel like when your partner kisses you? What is like, first of all, do you want to have sex with your partner? 

And like this person was in a super healthy relationship and she was just like, yes, and it feels great And I love it, and like all these things. I'm like then why is your head drifting to? is this gonna hurt scar tissue? yada, yada, yada when you're in the moment? And so I taught them how to essentially meditate, or embody, during our session, and I, by the way, i did not know how to build for that appointment at all, like I had no idea how to build for that appointment. 

0:50:11 - Speaker 1
You're a muscular read. 

0:50:13 - Speaker 2
Or they're like yeah, like now. 

0:50:16 - Speaker 1
I know how, but at the time I was just like I was just like staring at my computer, like that's like the worst. 

0:50:22 - Speaker 2
That person came back the next appointment And like I was kind of feeling a little bit trust me guys, we lose sleep over you not getting better. I'm working on my boundaries but like I will be, like you know I'll be taking a shower and like washing my hair I'm like I wonder how Susan's arm is totally she's showering like I wonder how she's doing okay. 

So, anyways, this client came back in the next time and, like I had written down some plans that, okay, today we're gonna try I don't know working on the Urakus ligament, which is like in between your belly button and your uterus. I'm, like you know, back to scientific mind. Whatever She rolls in, how are you doing? How was your weekend, all of that? I start touching her stomach while we're talking and she just randomly drops on me. Oh yeah, i had an orgasm without pain. Oh my God. 

And I was like come again, what? And she, like this was her only goal. I've been seeing her for months, this was her only goal. And I was like what did we do last time? Like what was different, like what worked. And she was. And I'm like pulling up my computer and like what magic button did I touch last time? Like, what like did she? is her strength? finally, at this certain spot Is her like whatever? 

And she was like when we were starting to have sex, she was like I used that, like dropping in meditative, like I used a very specific thing with her that I'm not gonna talk about for Pipa. And she was like I did that when I was like starting sex with my partner and I just stayed completely connected the whole time. And she was like it wasn't even until after I orgasmed that I realized what had happened. And it was like I mean, i was just I was balling, like I was just like in shock, crying, like there's a certain point, like as a PT and like anyone who does like a little bit of like energy work or you know the dabbles in the witchy woo-woo, that you're just like shocked. You're like I believe this stuff, but like when it happens, sometimes I'm still like in awe. 

I'm just in awe of what our bodies and our minds are capable of, and yeah, it's pretty incredible. 

0:52:23 - Speaker 1
It really is And I so agree of. Like. I'm like, yeah, I give this stuff for a reason. And then when people come back to me and like holy shit, that worked, That's amazing, Like whoa, Yeah. 

0:52:31 - Speaker 2
Oh yeah, i was asking like what did we do last time, or like what were you thinking about, or yeah, it's so cool. 

0:52:35 - Speaker 1
I'm a full blown witch. I'm a full blown witch. 

0:52:37 - Speaker 2
I identify as a witch now. 

0:52:39 - Speaker 1
I freaking. I really wish I remember what you said that one time, because it was a very that was not a long time ago. Was it kind of? was it kind of? 

0:52:48 - Speaker 2
rude. Was it kind of rude to you? No, it was. 

0:52:50 - Speaker 1
I remember it was specifically we were like in the car driving back. it was like you, me, tao, harmony from that like thing, and I think Tao and I were just talking about you know woo, woo shit, because Tao was all into it. 

0:53:04 - Speaker 2
And you, just like I, can literally roll my eyes and remember, and so I'm just like these guys are like comment, like oh my gosh, it'll be like over my dead body that I ever meditate. 

0:53:15 - Speaker 1
I don't know what it was. 

0:53:22 - Speaker 2
And now. 

0:53:23 - Speaker 1
I'm like I love it, But I love it. Okay, but I love this and I'm highlighting it just because, like one it at the time of your injury and like you're the healing, like I feel like I'm assuming part of the healing process is what initiated a lot of this, the more the healing process inside of you and other things, but like yeah, i literally was seeing. 

0:53:42 - Speaker 2
I had just seen a breathwork therapist for like the first time, like right before, and I remember I had a session and my leg was like all wrapped up, i couldn't walk yet and I was like laying in the bed and I was like, oh, shout out to Tasha, i had this terrible injury and she walked me through this beautiful breathwork session. I cried a lot and, yeah, i was definitely like in the midst of doing work to like, yeah, i was, i was starting the witchy stuff. 

0:54:13 - Speaker 1
And you're very new to it so it's not like and. I'm highlighting it just to be like. It's not like you were. You were obviously had the skill set of like the medical side, but it's like at the time of going through this, it's like that skill set was like a baby skill set. Well, totally yeah, i'll shout out to Tasha the show notes, because I did some breathwork sessions with her and she's amazing. Yeah anybody needs a great breath worker. 

0:54:36 - Speaker 2
Yeah, i was just so glad that I had just started leaning into that work because I had tried counseling, i tried therapy. For anyone up there who has tried therapy and struggled to connect, or I mean, i was so guilty of like I know just as much as this therapist about like if she has no my childhood, i'm just gonna like like I knew I wanted to direct my own therapy sessions. I was just like I don't want, like I was feeling so stuck and I couldn't even feel my emotions. I just I was so stuck And so for me, breathwork therapy was the thing that helped me kind of like loosen up my to like find my emotions and like tap into my emotions so that I could like actually work on them. 

And breathwork therapy isn't the it's not a successful avenue for everyone, but that again speaks to like just keep trying and like that's why I'm here, andrea, because I feel like the work that you do is just I don't want to sound like mean to anyone, but I'm just going to be authentic. I feel like people who are feeling lost with their in their journey they kind of can't find their modality that works. That kind of like I just feeling stuck. I do really feel like you are the person who can help them like get unstuck and can kind of like find their avenue. 

I mean, like I'm I feel so lucky to have you as a friend, like I didn't have to pay for all the therapy that. I got from you for the years, But like, I'm like getting a little teary eyed. But yeah, I just I'm so thankful that you do what you do and that there's people like you out there. And I also want to say to your listeners, like if Andrea is not the one for you to like don't stop looking. 

Like, yes, don't. Like there are like, just like everything, you can have a really good therapist, but like they're not a good fit for you, like if, andrea, i aren't a good fit for you, like I'm not trying, like keep looking for your person who's going to help you get unstuck. 

0:56:27 - Speaker 1
Oh, i love that. 

0:56:28 - Speaker 2
thank you, that's really really sweet of you to say all that, and so thank, i'm so thankful for you. 

0:56:35 - Speaker 1
Oh, so thankful for you. I missed you. I want to highlight that of like the breath, breath work, piece of like. I did a couple sessions with her and it's like for me, breath work is always really, really challenging. Like it was very triggering to my system and I don't think I would have been able to get through those sessions with her had I not already done a massive amount of work, because on my birth plan it was literally written like I swear to God, if you count my breath or make me breathe, i will punch you in the face, like I like. And so it's like. 

It's like if you tried stuff. When you've heard stuff that's worked, it's like again it's approaching, or that goes right back to the curious mind. And like what I really try to do with people is connect them to their own bodies in the way that works for them. So it's like of course, i have tools that I use that are my preference, that works for me, when everything else triggered the f out of my nervous system up And at the end of the day, it's all about adapting them to you And how do they work for you, and it's so cool to see what my clients come back with will be like I tried it this way and I'm like that's freakin awesome, like great, like What. 

What? where there's no dogma to this work is like what does your system need? And at the end of the day, it's all about how can you connect to your body, how can you embody that can like that mind body connection, and it's going to look so different for everyone. There's no right way. It's just what works for you. I feel like we should probably wrap up. I'll keep talking to you forever. 

0:57:59 - Speaker 2
I know, I would love to do just on pelvic pain. 

0:58:06 - Speaker 1
We'll just have Melissa back for you know, every month If she wants to, because she's a brilliant, brilliant therapist. 

0:58:14 - Speaker 2
I don't know. I feel like I just got there. I'm gonna like listen back to this and be like whoa. Just when you're talking about the quad injury. That was, yeah, i brought up some stuff for me and you lost me for a second, cuz like I don't really live that very often. 

0:58:28 - Speaker 1
I was gonna say I bet there is stuff. I mean I think it's like And I hear, well, i'll go therapy a little bit of just like, even in situ. 

I think that's really common. I'm gonna say two things about it that when there is a traumatic injury, you have to get through the like To not do the next step and take care of it, and often then just the emotional trauma that happens around it is not attended to and that's okay, nothing has gone wrong. But at some point it may come up and there's no like rush to do it, there's no timeline, there's no like, and it might not ever need to come up. It's just like. 

If it does, it doesn't, if not it doesn't, but I think a lot of people like just talking to someone about this the other day of like they had a traumatic injury and it's like, but I'm healed if everything was fine. And it's like, yeah, but look at what happened and what had to happen for you to heal from that Cause. There was a lot of their kids that had to happen and things like that. Like this is just a lot of emotional trauma And it's like you made it through. And you made it through by your body being super freaking, resilient and holding onto a lot of stuff and repressing things as it should. Like it's not a bad thing. It's just that at some point when there's safety, when there's space, it's gonna wanna come up and out when it gets to. 

0:59:43 - Speaker 2
Yeah, and it's been three years since my physical trauma, but I catch myself rubbing my thigh sometimes, yeah, and when I see a picture of myself and I see the nice little dent in my thigh, you know that brings up some pain and emotion for me. So, just because you're physically healed and you can do all the things that you want to do, if you're still having things, there's more you can do for it. You don't have to just live with it or get stuck. 

1:00:14 - Speaker 1
Totally Yeah. And just to like clarify, it's like you are back to doing everything you wanna do. 

1:00:21 - Speaker 2
Yeah, i just wanna like wrap that piece up in case anyone was watching it on that. I'm doing CrossFit. Yeah, i'm doing CrossFit. I'm running, i'm weightlifting, i'm doing all the things. 

1:00:30 - Speaker 1
Yeah, oh, i love the like. just show a little love to your thigh, my little rub. 

1:00:37 - Speaker 2
You have to share the photos of you putting Kani's here. Oh my God, let's talk about the fact that What can we do? 

1:00:43 - Speaker 1
Put it on backwards at first, because I was like so, like holy shit. And I was like, oh shit, wrong way, just kidding, let's take this off and redo it. 

1:00:51 - Speaker 2
Just keep adding more tape. Yeah, exactly, just keep taping it Exactly. 

1:00:55 - Speaker 1
All right. Well, thank you so much for being out here, melissa. It was so fun to talk to you And thank you for sharing your story, because I know it's like a vulnerable one and a lot, and I appreciate it so much.